Posted 21 April 2011 by David
Guys, I can't see any Solothurns or 47mm A.T.G on the T.o&E of the Battaglione Motorizzato of Divisions Like Trento or Trieste in either the AS 40 or AS 42 designations.
There are of course some 47/32 in their Battaglione Armi Accom' but no Solothurn that I can see.
Am I mistaken? Would they have had some in the regular Battaglione?
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Posted 21 April 2011 by Dili
I would say the solothurns were deployed to infantry fuciliere, but i have never saw them listed as a part of TOE - i mean who operated them -. I am also curious about that.
Some quotes i have maybe from this own forum:
Quote
later in 1940 100 solothurn are distributed of 2 per battalion
Quote
To each infantry company of Divisione di Fanteria tipo AS-42 "Brescia", "Pavia", "Bologna", "Sabratha" and of Divisione Motorizzata "Trento" and "Trieste" was assigned one AT platoon with 25 mm AT guns and one AT platoon with 20 mm Solothurn or Breda mod 35. The 1a Armata in Tunisia (Mareth line) on february 1943 had 36 25/72 guns.
For GGFF i have this
Quote
2 Fuciliere Bn, Each: 3 Fuciliere Co, each with 3 plt( in total Both Bn had 27 LMG and 15 ATR solothurn.
From my data the biggest ATR unit seems to be the company with 12-15 ATR, the first number makes possible to have 2 ATR to each of 6 battalions fuciliere of a typical Division since i don't think the company operated as a whole unit. Now when in Africa the regiments changed to 2Bn fuciliere+Bn AA.CC i don't know what happened.
I have also 15 ATR listed in some Divisions like Ariete, the GGFF above.
and a company of 8 solothurns (maybe missing a part of unit since part of if was sunk) in Cavalry Regiment Lodi in Tunisia.
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Posted 21 April 2011 by David
Thanks for the information regarding the Solothurns. What about the 47/32 c.c. Any ideas?
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Posted 02 May 2011 by Montbrun
As of the AS42 Organization, the Rifle Companies of the Infantry, Motorized Infantry, and Bersaglieri units in North Africa had the following organization:
Compagnia Fanteria
--Squadra Comando – 1 x Captain, 1 x NCO, 9 x EM
----Transport – 4 x Cars, 3 x Heavy Trucks, 7 x EM Drivers
--Plotone Fucilieri
----Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 1 x EM
----Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
----Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
----Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
--Plotone Mitraglieri
----Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 1 x EM
----Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
----Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
----Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
--Plotone c.c. da 20 o 25
----Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 2 x EM
----Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
----Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
----Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
--Plotone c.c da 47/32
----Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 2 x EM
----Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG
----Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG
----Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG
The three Heavy Trucks in the Company HQ were used to tow the antitank guns, and haul the antitank rifles and HMGs.
SOURCE:
NARA Records Group 242, Microcopy T821, Roll 21, File IT111
“Formazioni Provvisorie di Guerra – Comandi, Reparti e Servizi in A.S. – Fascicolo C – Fanteria,” Stato Maggiore R. Esercito, Ufficio Ordinamento
Guys, I can't see any Solothurns or 47mm A.T.G on the T.o&E of the Battaglione Motorizzato of Divisions Like Trento or Trieste in either the AS 40 or AS 42 designations.
There are of course some 47/32 in their Battaglione Armi Accom' but no Solothurn that I can see.
Am I mistaken? Would they have had some in the regular Battaglione?
-----------
Posted 21 April 2011 by Dili
I would say the solothurns were deployed to infantry fuciliere, but i have never saw them listed as a part of TOE - i mean who operated them -. I am also curious about that.
Some quotes i have maybe from this own forum:
Quote
later in 1940 100 solothurn are distributed of 2 per battalion
Quote
To each infantry company of Divisione di Fanteria tipo AS-42 "Brescia", "Pavia", "Bologna", "Sabratha" and of Divisione Motorizzata "Trento" and "Trieste" was assigned one AT platoon with 25 mm AT guns and one AT platoon with 20 mm Solothurn or Breda mod 35. The 1a Armata in Tunisia (Mareth line) on february 1943 had 36 25/72 guns.
For GGFF i have this
Quote
2 Fuciliere Bn, Each: 3 Fuciliere Co, each with 3 plt( in total Both Bn had 27 LMG and 15 ATR solothurn.
From my data the biggest ATR unit seems to be the company with 12-15 ATR, the first number makes possible to have 2 ATR to each of 6 battalions fuciliere of a typical Division since i don't think the company operated as a whole unit. Now when in Africa the regiments changed to 2Bn fuciliere+Bn AA.CC i don't know what happened.
I have also 15 ATR listed in some Divisions like Ariete, the GGFF above.
and a company of 8 solothurns (maybe missing a part of unit since part of if was sunk) in Cavalry Regiment Lodi in Tunisia.
---------------
Posted 21 April 2011 by David
Thanks for the information regarding the Solothurns. What about the 47/32 c.c. Any ideas?
----------------
Posted 02 May 2011 by Montbrun
As of the AS42 Organization, the Rifle Companies of the Infantry, Motorized Infantry, and Bersaglieri units in North Africa had the following organization:
Compagnia Fanteria
--Squadra Comando – 1 x Captain, 1 x NCO, 9 x EM
----Transport – 4 x Cars, 3 x Heavy Trucks, 7 x EM Drivers
--Plotone Fucilieri
----Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 1 x EM
----Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
----Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
----Squadra Fucilieri – 1 x NCO, 2 x Senior EM, 8 x EM, 2 x LMG
--Plotone Mitraglieri
----Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 1 x EM
----Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
----Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
----Squadra Mitraglieri – 1 x NCO, 1 x Senior EM, 5 x EM, 1 x HMG
--Plotone c.c. da 20 o 25
----Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 2 x EM
----Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
----Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
----Squadra Controcarro – 1 x NCO, 6 x EM, 1 x 20mm Solothurn ATR or 25mm ATG (Captured French)
--Plotone c.c da 47/32
----Comando – 1 x Jumior Officer, 2 x EM
----Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG
----Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG
----Squadra c.c da 47/32 – 1 x NCO, 10 x EM, 1 x 47/32 ATG
The three Heavy Trucks in the Company HQ were used to tow the antitank guns, and haul the antitank rifles and HMGs.
SOURCE:
NARA Records Group 242, Microcopy T821, Roll 21, File IT111
“Formazioni Provvisorie di Guerra – Comandi, Reparti e Servizi in A.S. – Fascicolo C – Fanteria,” Stato Maggiore R. Esercito, Ufficio Ordinamento