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Italy september 1943

#1 User is offline   antonio 

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 09:17 AM

Hi, I am new on this Forum.

I am trying to get an italian order of battle at the time of the armistice. Can anybody help me with the units (till brigade or regiment brigade) on 8th army and north-center italy.

thanks
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#2 User is offline   Romulus Invictus 

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 10:18 AM

On 8th September 1943 at 8pm the VIII Army OoB was:

8th Army HQ (General Gariboldi)

5th (Army Corps) Artillery Regiment
3rd Engineer Group (Raggruppamento)
1st "Pontieri" Regiment

XXXV Army Corps

- Cuneense Alpine Division
1st Alpine Rgt
2nd Alpine Rgt
4th Mountain Artillery Rgt
- Tridentina Alpine Division
5th Alpine Rgt
6th Apine Rgt
2nd Alpine Artillery Rgt
2nd Engineer Bn
- 8th Bersaglieri cyclist Regiment
- 4th (Army Corps) Artillery Regiment
- 6th (Frontier Guards) Artillery Regiment

XXIV Army Corps

- Torino Infantry Division
81st Infantry Rgt
82nd Infantry Rgt
52nd Artilley Rgt
159th MG Bn
159th Engineer Bn
- Julia Alpine Division
8th Alpine Rgt
9th Alpine Rgt
3rd Mountain Artillery Rgt
3rd Engineer Bn
- Frontier Guards HQ (XI, XII and XIII sectors)
- 3rd Alpine Brigade (Brigata Alpina di Marcia???) consisting of 3 regiments
- unspecified Army Corps Artillery

XXIII Army Corps

- Sforzesca Infantry Division
53rd Infantry Rgt
54th Infantry Rgt
17th artillery Rgt
157th MG Bn
157th Engineer Bn
- Frontier Guards HQ (XXV and XXVI sectors)
- 3 coastal regiments (understrenght: 5 battalions)
- unspecified Army Corps Artillery

Stefani, in his book regarding the organizational history of the Italian Army, asserts that the 8th Army was poorly efficient since it mainly consisted of divisions coming from the Russian front. It was slowly reorganizing, that's why it lacked heavy equipment, ammunition and personnel.
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini Tuo da gloriam
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#3 User is offline   antonio 

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 07:42 AM

Thanks.

I believe that on 8th september there were other divisions in Northern Italy: cosseria, 3 celere, Alpi Graie, Rovigo, Ravenna and 215, 216 coastal. Were these divisions attached to any specific corps or were independent?.
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#4 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 08:33 AM

Cosseria was under Milan Territorial Command, 3rd Celere under Bologna Terrtorial Command, the others formed the 5th Army
melius esse quam videri

#5 User is offline   antonio 

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 09:20 AM

Thank you Lupo:

My information was that the units on V Army, were:

Corpo Motocorazzato
Div Ariete II
Div Centauro II
Div piave
Div Granatieri
XVII Corpo
Div Re
Div Piacenza
2 coastal divisions
Corpo di Roma
Div Sassari


So I suppose I must add to these, the II Corpo with the Div Ravenna, and Alpi Granie and Rovigo that were garrisoned in La Spezia.

Am I Right?
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#6 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 12:00 PM

no, units you list formed the defence of Rome and were not part of 5th Army which had responsability on Tuscany and La Spezia.

Effectively there was not an upper ommand responsible for Rome defence, one of the many strange elements about italian surrender
melius esse quam videri

#7 User is offline   Jim H 

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 02:04 PM

I have an OOB for the Italian army on 8 Sep 43, but it is on a divisional level (and sent to me in French) :)

#8 User is offline   antonio 

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 04:42 PM

Thank you for your information. I made an error and believed that in each area of Italy there was only one army.

I have made a completely OOB of Italian forces on 7th september. If you want i can e-mail it and we can compare our information.

I have got a question about armored forces in Sardinia. I believe that there were the following units, but I am not certain.

C Battaglione carri
32 Reggimento carristi
Gruppo cavalleria Sardegna.
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