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Stalin's Gift T-35 Model 1938 Heavy Tanks

#1 User is offline   Alex Nicole 

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 08:34 AM

Hello All,

I was reading an article about Marshall Balbo's mission to Moscow and it mentions Stalin's gift of 24 T-35 Model 1938 Heavy Tanks (delivered Nov 1940). Looking into this I found a second article saying that 8 of these were stripped for parts (by Fiat). The remaining 16 went to Sicily, does anybody know what happened to them?

Thanks

Alex
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#2 User is offline   madmike 

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 12:26 PM

View PostAlex Nicole, on 09 June 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

Hello All,

I was reading an article about Marshall Balbo's mission to Moscow and it mentions Stalin's gift of 24 T-35 Model 1938 Heavy Tanks (delivered Nov 1940). Looking into this I found a second article saying that 8 of these were stripped for parts (by Fiat). The remaining 16 went to Sicily, does anybody know what happened to them?

Thanks

Alex


This type of tank never enter service in the REI, nor been evalutated by the Army.

I dont know wich article you have read, but not a single publication, of the Stato Maggiore dell'Esercito, talk about this tank, or the presence in Sicily. More: the tank was built in 61 examples. Its almost ipossible that 24 were 'gifted' to Italy.
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#3 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:34 PM

View Postmadmike, on 09 June 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

This type of tank never enter service in the REI, nor been evalutated by the Army.

I dont know wich article you have read, but not a single publication, of the Stato Maggiore dell'Esercito, talk about this tank, or the presence in Sicily. More: the tank was built in 61 examples. Its almost ipossible that 24 were 'gifted' to Italy.



Probably fake. Can you say what article?
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#4 User is offline   Alex Nicole 

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:39 AM

View PostDili, on 09 June 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

Probably fake. Can you say what article?


Hi Guy's,

I've been trying to re-find the articles and what do you know, not a sign. The first was supposed to be transcripts of Marshal Balbo's letters to Mussolini from Berlin, Moscow and Tokyo in 1940. The second was just an article on Italian tanks. Some of the information seemed wrong anyway. About the T-35 tanks it said that the hulls of the scrapped tanks were used as part of an anti-submarine armoured train project?

Did Marshal Balbo even go on technical exhange missions in 1940?

Alex
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#5 User is offline   madmike 

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:15 PM

anti submarine armoured train??
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#6 User is offline   madmike 

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:15 PM

anti submarine armoured train??
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#7 User is offline   Alex Nicole 

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:13 PM

View Postmadmike, on 12 June 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

anti submarine armoured train??


Exactly :rolleyes:

I thought it might be a miss translation, possible a coastal defence / anti-invasion armoured train. Which would kind of make sense for main land Italy (assuming there are train lines along the coast or at least within effective artillery range of the trains weapons)

Alex
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#8 User is offline   madmike 

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:29 PM

no: the T35 turrets were used in russian armored trains:

http://www.avalanche...moredTrains.php

but is a completely different thing.

But: surely, no russian tank of this type ever went in Italy.
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#9 User is offline   Alex Nicole 

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 07:51 AM

View Postmadmike, on 12 June 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

no: the T35 turrets were used in russian armored trains:

http://www.avalanche...moredTrains.php

but is a completely different thing.

But: surely, no russian tank of this type ever went in Italy.


Hi Guy's,

Thank's for the response Madmike. Forgeting the T35's for the moment (sounds like a red herring) does anybody know if Italy sent out any military missions to the other axis nations with the mission of exchanging or gaining better military equipment. This would include the Soviet Union (I know it's was not an axis power) prior to the invasion?

Alex
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#10 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:45 AM

View PostAlex Nicole, on 13 June 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Hi Guy's,

Thank's for the response Madmike. Forgeting the T35's for the moment (sounds like a red herring) does anybody know if Italy sent out any military missions to the other axis nations with the mission of exchanging or gaining better military equipment. This would include the Soviet Union (I know it's was not an axis power) prior to the invasion?

Alex


It got Stukas, much better than the failed SM-85 dive bomber. It got also 88mm since the industry couldn't produce enough 90mm, but could produce several components of 88.
Is that you're asking?
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#11 User is offline   Alex Nicole 

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:37 AM

View PostDili, on 13 June 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

It got Stukas, much better than the failed SM-85 dive bomber. It got also 88mm since the industry couldn't produce enough 90mm, but could produce several components of 88.
Is that you're asking?


Hi, yes and no.

I'm interested in what axis (or captured) equipment was used by the Italian forces in any numbers. What axis / captured equipment did they copy or produce under license?

I would also like to know how the Italian went about technical exchanges with the axis nations (and also the Soviet Union prior to the invasion). Did they run military missions, reports from their own forces. Was there equipment or technology they wanted and had seen but couldn't get.

Regards,

Alex
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#12 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:08 PM

View PostAlex Nicole, on 14 June 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

Hi, yes and no.

I'm interested in what axis (or captured) equipment was used by the Italian forces in any numbers. What axis / captured equipment did they copy or produce under license?

I would also like to know how the Italian went about technical exchanges with the axis nations (and also the Soviet Union prior to the invasion). Did they run military missions, reports from their own forces. Was there equipment or technology they wanted and had seen but couldn't get.

Regards,

Alex



That is a big request impossible to fullfill here.

You have in this forum the french tanks, some threads below. There were also some German tanks and other equipment for the 1943 M division that was never combat ready. It got some German Bf109 and night fighters like Do-217 and Me-110 with no radars.

Guns: check below "preda belica - captured weapons"
http://xoomer.virgil...lierie_2gm.html

In navy the MFP and Siebel ferries,KT Kriegtransporters, plus the MS torpedos boats and VAS were a modified copy of MS2D that German sold to Yugoslavia and Italian captured in 1941. Some ships got Flakvierling 20mm quads and the De.Te Radar also the German sonar. Some submarines are said to have got the wakeless german electric torpedo but i never read an operational use of it.
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#13 User is offline   Alex Nicole 

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:55 AM

View PostDili, on 15 June 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

That is a big request impossible to fullfill here.

You have in this forum the french tanks, some threads below. There were also some German tanks and other equipment for the 1943 M division that was never combat ready. It got some German Bf109 and night fighters like Do-217 and Me-110 with no radars.

Guns: check below "preda belica - captured weapons"
http://xoomer.virgil...lierie_2gm.html

In navy the MFP and Siebel ferries,KT Kriegtransporters, plus the MS torpedos boats and VAS were a modified copy of MS2D that German sold to Yugoslavia and Italian captured in 1941. Some ships got Flakvierling 20mm quads and the De.Te Radar also the German sonar. Some submarines are said to have got the wakeless german electric torpedo but i never read an operational use of it.


Thank you,

Alex
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