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Aa Artillery In Albania

#1 User is offline   arturolorioli 

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:55 PM

AFAIK there were four Anti-aircraft artillery battalions in Albania on October 1940, one with 75/27AV guns and three with 76/40 guns.

Does anybody know the exact unit names?

Thanks in advance.
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Arturo F.Lorioli
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#2 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:17 PM

Are we talking about RE only ? If so:


76/40

LXI Gruppo CA
LXII Gruppo CA
LXIII Gruppo CA for this one i have

Quote

Busta affrancata coppia 50 cent. Imp., viaggiata in data 7.4.1941 con annullo dell' Ufficio Posta militare n. 22 (conflitto italo-greco), indicazione manuale del mittente '63° Gruppo Contraerei'
so this is probable to have been in Albania.
LXIV Gruppo CA

75/27 AV

I have
LXXXVI,LXXXII,LXXXIII,LXXXIV,LXXXVI , all in Egeo in 1943 the last one upgraded to 90/53. I have also an obscure X Gruppo CA da pos.
None said to be in Albania before butsince i don't have history might have. I have a note that says this 5 gruppos were the only ones 75/27AV in RE. Doesn't explain the void between LXXXIV and LXXXVI.
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#3 User is offline   arturolorioli 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

View PostDili, on 01 April 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Are we talking about RE only ? If so:


Thank you very much. Just to be sure that I have understood correctly, the only bn you are certain of is the 63rd (76/40)? Correct?
Aighe-va

Arturo F.Lorioli
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#4 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 04:23 PM

View Postarturolorioli, on 02 April 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Thank you very much. Just to be sure that I have understood correctly, the only bn you are certain of is the 63rd (76/40)? Correct?


Correct and only by that mail quote.
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#5 User is offline   arturolorioli 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:07 AM

View PostDili, on 02 April 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Correct and only by that mail quote.


Thanks anyway.
Aighe-va

Arturo F.Lorioli
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 04:28 PM

Not much i know. Google books have some hits: for example i can get this phrase from " 76/40 Albania ":

note 75/27CK not 75/27AV

Quote

...75/27 CK che dislocato inizialmente nel Lazio è successivamente impiegato in Albania.... nonché i gruppi da posizione XLV da 75 (materiale francese); LXI da 76/40; XVIII e XXIX da 88/55; LI e CLIII da 20; ...
from L'Esercito italiano verso il 2000, Volume 1, Part 2

note that i am not implying that XLV, LXI etc have been in Albania since i don't know the text in between ...


Others hints from

La storia della dottrina e degli ordinamenti dell'Esercito italiano: t. 1. Da Vittorio Veneto alla 2a. guerra mondiale. t. 2. La 2a guerra mondiale (1940-1943)

La guerra italiana, retroscena della disfatti, Volume 2
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#7 User is offline   arturolorioli 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:19 PM

View PostDili, on 04 April 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

note 75/27CK not 75/27AV


I'm not sure that I understood correctly this line. The 75mm AA battalion I'm looking for in Albania, October 1940, was reportedly a 75/27AV, not a 75/27CK one.
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Arturo F.Lorioli
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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:06 PM

I was just pointing some sources that might have the data you want. If it writes about 75/27CK it might also do it about 75/27AV. Just that.
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#9 User is offline   arturolorioli 

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:08 AM

View PostDili, on 04 April 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

I was just pointing some sources that might have the data you want. If it writes about 75/27CK it might also do it about 75/27AV. Just that.


OK, thanks
Aighe-va

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#10 User is offline   diciassette2000 

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:12 PM

Hi
I dont think that these is the correct answer to the Lorioli question..... I read many and many italian report on the matter in years of research but i never find the 3 battery of 75/27 Av(a group) and the nine battery (3 Group) of 76/40 (????!!!!) that are in "Riepilogo delle artiglierie " pag. 351 Vol. XVI of Montu's "Storia dell'artiglieria italiana". The only AA Groups that I find in Albania-Greece OOB in many years of research are :
-4. Gruppo contraereo 75/46 (two batteries) (mobilized 5th AA regimen)(in Albania from november 1940)
-5.o Gruppo contraereo 75/27 CK (two batteries) (mobilized 4th AA regiment) (in Albania from April 1941 since september 1941)
-14.o Gruppo contraereo 75/27 CK (two batteries) (mobilized 5th AA regiment) (In Albania from november 1940)
-19.o Gruppo contraereo 75/46 (two batteries) (mobilized 5th AA regiment) (In Albania from november 1940)
-11.o Gruppo contraereo 75/27 CK (two batteries) (In Alania 1941) (???????)
None of these Groups area in ALbania at 13/6/1941 but only :
-3.o Gruppo contraereo 75/27 CK (Difesa di Tirana)
-60.o Gruppo contraereo da 75/27 AV (Difesa di Tirana)
The mistery of four Groups in Montu's Table are (phreaps) the Regia Marina Groups of Durazzo and Valona (76/40)?????????? (1+3 ... of course....)
All the best
Maurizio
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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:48 PM

I have V gruppo 75/27CK at Porto Bardia Jully 1940. Did it went Albania?
XIV Gruppo i have that it went Africa January 1941.

I have 9 batteries of 76/40 in Valona and 3 in Durazzo from Milmart


It is unclear if there were any DICAT.
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#12 User is offline   diciassette2000 

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

Hi
V Gruppo contrereo never went to Africa . At 3 July 1940 the 2.o reggimento contraereo (10.a Armata) have (in AS):
VI Gruppo 75/27 Derna, VII Gruppo 75/46 Bengasi, XV Gruppo 75/46 Cirene, XVII Gruppo 75/46 Bardia, XX Gruppo 75/27 CK Tobruk, XXI Gruppo 75/27 CK Bardia , XXII Gruppo 75/46 Bardia.
The XIV Gruppo 75/27 CK (two batteries) went to AS in January 1941 (from Albania by Italy)....
ALl the best
Maurizio
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#13 User is offline   arturolorioli 

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:30 PM

View Postdiciassette2000, on 05 April 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

-3.o Gruppo contraereo 75/27 CK (Difesa di Tirana)
-60.o Gruppo contraereo da 75/27 AV (Difesa di Tirana)


So we have a positive identification of the 75AV Bn. Great!
The 75CK bn is not listed in Monù, much interesting, could you share the source?

Tanks a lot, great and factual help.
Aighe-va

Arturo F.Lorioli
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#14 User is offline   diciassette2000 

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

Hi
Arturo Allegato 57 Documenti pag 365 Ascoli La Guardia alla Frontiera Roma 2003
All the best
Maurizio
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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:27 PM

My source for V gruppo in Bardia it is this: http://www.regioeser...eria/odbart.htm

It is interesting already many AA groups in 03 Jully 1940.


Most had to come in ship convoys in June. Anyone has a list of convoys sent in June that could have transported most of this units?


diciassette2000 can you say when VI group arrived Africa. I have been trying to find the third group that were there at War start?
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#16 User is offline   arturolorioli 

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:06 PM

View Postdiciassette2000, on 06 April 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Allegato 57 Documenti pag 365 Ascoli La Guardia alla Frontiera Roma 2003


Thanks again!
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Arturo F.Lorioli
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#17 User is offline   diciassette2000 

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

Hi
Dili a read only.....

Settore di Bardia;

- 1 gruppo di btr. da 75/27 da posizione costiera e contraerei.

- VI Gruppo da 75/27 CK.

- 1 btr. da 75/27 CK (del XX Gruppo) avuta dalla 5a A.

i dont find V Gruppo da 75/27 CK..........

sorry but i dont know when the VI Gruppo went in AS

All the best
Maurizio
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:01 AM

View Postdiciassette2000, on 07 April 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hi
Dili a read only.....

Settore di Bardia;

- 1 gruppo di btr. da 75/27 da posizione costiera e contraerei.

- VI Gruppo da 75/27 CK.

- 1 btr. da 75/27 CK (del XX Gruppo) avuta dalla 5a A.

i dont find V Gruppo da 75/27 CK..........

sorry but i dont know when the VI Gruppo went in AS

All the best
Maurizio


Thanks. I wonder where came from the data that made the allegati we have about 1 June and 10 June 1940. it is almost bizarre, we have guns, men, even rifles totals...
..but we still don't have a reliable units OOB...
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