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Motorcycle Units 1940-1941

#1 User is offline   nmao 

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:03 PM

Hello!

Trying to make sense of my notes. it seems i have almost no idea how many (bersaglieri) companies were in Libya.

This is one possible list (full of errors i'm sure):
21st (XXI corps)
22nd (XXII corps)
201st
202nd
203rd
60th (Sabratha?)
61st
others?

later three formed a provisional bersaglieri m/c bn for the Brigata Coazzata Speciale (60th, 201st and 202nd coys)

Can anyone help?

thanks,

-Nuno Oliveira

PS:i'm interested in the period June 1940-February 1941 (excludes Ariete, etc.)
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#2 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:31 PM

I only have 201,202,203 but i have not made much search in that topic.
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#3 User is offline   nmao 

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:15 PM

I'm going to reply to my own topic :)

XXIII (23) Corps (CCNN) has 23.a Squadriglia Autoblindo (no motociclisti there)
XXII (22) Corps i've seen some references to 22.a compagnia bersaglieri motociclisti
XXI (21) Corps i have 21.a compagnia bersaglieri motociclisti

Sabratha - 60th Bersaglieri m/c coy (did it exist or only planned?)
Sirte division - 61st Bersaglieri m/c coy (did it exist or only planned?)
Cirene - i've never seen an hypothetical 62nd...
Catanzaro - very doubtful since its late constitution and weaker equipment (no L3 bat, etc)

201, 202 and 203 Bersaglieri m/c coy (independent units?, the numbers remind of CCNN units...)

provisional bersaglieri m/c bn for the Brigata Coazzata Speciale (60th, 201st and 202nd coys)

I believe these are all the references i could find... maybe there was some renumbering?
Did they exist in June 1940? Any reinforcements during this period?

in this site:
http://xoomer.virgil...iugno_1940.html
is listed a total of 3 Compagnie Bersaglieri Motociclisti

any help is appreciated :)

thanks.

-Nuno Oliveira
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#4 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:57 PM

View Postnmao, on 09 March 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

I'm going to reply to my own topic :)

XXIII (23) Corps (CCNN) has 23.a Squadriglia Autoblindo (no motociclisti there)
XXII (22) Corps i've seen some references to 22.a compagnia bersaglieri motociclisti
XXI (21) Corps i have 21.a compagnia bersaglieri motociclisti

Sabratha - 60th Bersaglieri m/c coy (did it exist or only planned?)
Sirte division - 61st Bersaglieri m/c coy (did it exist or only planned?)
Cirene - i've never seen an hypothetical 62nd...
Catanzaro - very doubtful since its late constitution and weaker equipment (no L3 bat, etc)

201, 202 and 203 Bersaglieri m/c coy (independent units?, the numbers remind of CCNN units...)

provisional bersaglieri m/c bn for the Brigata Coazzata Speciale (60th, 201st and 202nd coys)

I believe these are all the references i could find... maybe there was some renumbering?
Did they exist in June 1940? Any reinforcements during this period?

in this site:
http://xoomer.virgil...iugno_1940.html
is listed a total of 3 Compagnie Bersaglieri Motociclisti

any help is appreciated :)

thanks.

-Nuno Oliveira



I have 201,202,203 as the Corps Motociclisti recon.
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#5 User is offline   david 

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:32 PM

OK. Let's see if my input helps, or just "muddies the water"!

21. Yes, With 21 Corpo.
22. Yes, With 22 Corpo.

60. Yes, But I can't place it until November 1941 with Provisional Bersaglieri Battalion.
61. ???
62. ???
63. ???
64. Yes (see 3 posts below)
201. Yes, But I can't place it until November 1941 with Provisional Bersaglieri Battalion.
202. Yes, But I can't place it until November 1941 with Provisional Bersaglieri Battalion.
203. Yes (Although I didn't have it, others did)
6x Compagnia. 3 within XXV Battalion, 10th Regiment. & 3 within XVI Battalion, 10th Regiment.
Cheers; Dave.

#6 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:17 PM

View Postdavid, on 11 March 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

OK. Let's see if my input helps, or just "muddies the water"!

21. Yes, With 21 Corpo.
22. Yes, With 22 Corpo.

60. Yes, But I can't place it until November 1941 with Provisional Bersaglieri Battalion.
61. ???
62. ???
63. ???
64. NO

201. Yes, But I can't place it until November 1941 with Provisional Bersaglieri Battalion.
202. Yes, But I can't place it until November 1941 with Provisional Bersaglieri Battalion.
203. ???

6x Compagnia. 3 within XXV Battalion, 10th Regiment. & 3 within XVI Battalion, 10th Regiment.



I have 10th Regiment as ciclisti and was in Italy- Sicily until September 40. It is motorized in meantime and arrives in Africa about that time.
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#7 User is offline   david 

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:16 AM

Dili.

In my notes, I have the 10th as in North Africa before 10th June 1940. It would appear that my notes are wrong!

Also, can anyone confirm or deny the existance of 61st, 62nd, 63rd?
Cheers; Dave.

#8 User is offline   diciassette2000 

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:48 PM

Hi

Catanzaro division have its motorcicle coy (64???? in official documents stated with "Catanzaro motorcicle coy"). On 1st december 1940 its was at Bir Oasi, on 9-10 december 1940 it was with 1st "Scaglione" (HQ Force), on 11/12/1940 (going Sollum) with 3rd "Scaglione", on 11/12/1940 (Bir Tishida battle) divisional "Fronte sud", lost on this battle......
All the best
Maurizio
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#9 User is offline   david 

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:54 PM

Quote

Catanzaro division have its motorcicle coy (64???? in official documents stated with "Catanzaro motorcicle coy"). On 1st december 1940 its was at Bir Oasi, on 9-10 december 1940 it was with 1st "Scaglione" (HQ Force), on 11/12/1940 (going Sollum) with 3rd "Scaglione", on 11/12/1940 (Bir Tishida battle)


Excellent! Thank you.
Cheers; Dave.

#10 User is offline   david 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:16 AM

I have seen a 2nd Compagnia Bersaglieri Motorcyclisti listed as a XX Corpo asset.
I wonder if this is true, or just a typo?

As a reminder, we are still seeking confirmation for 61st, 62nd & 63rd Compagnia.
Cheers; Dave.

#11 User is offline   david 

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:46 PM

Still looking for an answer on the above.

Has anyone found out anything?
Cheers; Dave.

#12 User is offline   david 

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:45 AM

Anyone got anything on the 2nd Compagnia with XX Corpo?
Cheers; Dave.

#13 User is offline   diciassette2000 

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 12:30 PM

View Postdavid, on 20 September 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Anyone got anything on the 2nd Compagnia with XX Corpo?


No 2nd motorcicle coy never assigned to this Corp...phreaps 2.a compagnia of one bersaglieri battalion assigned to it that despached it's
2nd (moto) coys to Corp Hq????????
All the best
Maurizio
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#14 User is offline   david 

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 12:47 PM

Thank you.
Cheers; Dave.

#15 User is offline   david 

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:12 PM

I am also looking for the location on 10th June 1940 for the following Compagnia Bersaglieri Motorcyclisti......

21st
22nd
23rd
203rd

Thanks.
Cheers; Dave.

#16 User is offline   diciassette2000 

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:15 PM

View Postdavid, on 23 September 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I am also looking for the location on 10th June 1940 for the following Compagnia Bersaglieri Motorcyclisti......

21st
22nd
23rd
203rd

Thanks.


The 23rd moto coy disembark at Bengasi 1st august 1940. The 200 moto coys series (201,202,203) are difficoult to place....someone (italian historist) says that are moto coys born for CCNN divisions
that are afetr utilized to army corps HQ...Others says that the suffixed 200 are put in existence after june 1940 for "duplicated" the 21st, 22nd and 23rd moto coys (a common pratice of
regio Esercito was that of "duplicated" units with 100,200 and 300 or 400 suffix....... Of the 21st and 22nd I dont have notice but they was usually with Corp Hq.....
ALl the best
Maurizio
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#17 User is offline   david 

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:09 PM

That's a good start, thank you very much.
Cheers; Dave.

#18 User is offline   voloire 

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:07 AM

View Postdavid, on 24 September 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

That's a good start, thank you very much.

XXII Coy: unit detached from 5° Rgt (Greece) - Arrived in NA on august 1940; destroyed on Beda Fomm at feb 7th 1941.


then I have:
XVII coy : detached from 6° Rgt - in NA since june 1940 assigned to 8° Rgt - dismembred in january 1941
III coy: detached from 3° Rgt - CA unit

BTW: it's not easy to locate and follow the moto coys because of often they was "scatteder" trough the Commands as recon units, estafettes and so on...
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#19 User is offline   diciassette2000 

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:16 AM

View Postvoloire, on 18 October 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

XXII Coy: unit detached from 5 Rgt (Greece) - Arrived in NA on august 1940; destroyed on Beda Fomm at feb 7th 1941.


Voloire...the 22nd bersaglieri moto coy was destroyed at Tobruk not at Beda Fomm but phreaps came from 5th bersaglieri regiments....???
All the best
Maurizio
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#20 User is offline   david 

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:38 AM

Thanks guys.


Questions.

Voloire, XXII Co; arrives at Benghasi?

III co was with 8th Reg in N.A wasn't it?

What does dismembered mean in relation to XVII co?
Cheers; Dave.

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