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Bardia Fortress 10Th June 1940 Lets find all the units present!

#1 User is offline   david 

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 12:31 AM

I'm trying to compile a list of all the units, including statico and da posizione that were in the Bardia fortress on 10th June 1940.
Would you all like to contribute by adding to it and where necessary correcting it.
Here's what I've got...

62nd Divisione Fanteria MARMARICA.

X Gruppo/Squadroni Mitraglieri Vittorio Emanuele II

XXX G.a.F Battaglione. Misto Genio

I Gruppo. 30th G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
II Gruppo. 30th G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
III Gruppo. 30th G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
IV Gruppo. 30th G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria
VI Gruppo. 30th G.a.F Raggrupamento D'Artiglieria (c.a)


I'm fairly certain that there were also Costieri units, more contraereo units and half a dozen or so Compagnia Contro Carro
Cheers; Dave.

#2 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 03:35 PM

XXI Corpo
-62 Div.AS.Marmarica
-LXII Bn.Carri(46xL3)

XXX Settore di Copertura GAF
Sottosettore XXX/a Amseat
-3ª compagnia mitraglieri da posizione libica
-1 compagnia automitragliatrici libica
-XXX reparto misto genio
-XXX Raggr. Art. GAF
w/I,II,VI Gruppo 77/28 III gruppo 120/25


Doubts:
-?14 comp. mitr. pos. libica
-?15 comp. mitr. pos. libica
-?18 comp. mitr. pos. libica
-?19 comp. mitr. pos. libica

Nothing from Navy there - maybe the Espero convoy with an "urgent" AA navy unit in late June was for Bardia.


Part of this units specially machine gunners should be in presidios and forts that are part of the large Amseat sottosettore like:
>>>Ridotta Capuzzo
>>>Presidio Sidi Omar
>>>Presidio Bir Ghirba
>>>Presidio Scerfezen
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#3 User is offline   david 

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 04:05 PM

Dili.

I had LXII Btg Carri L, but as part of Marmarica.

Quote

3ª compagnia mitraglieri da posizione libica
-1 compagnia automitragliatrici libica

Compagnia Numbers?

Quote

Doubts:
-?14 comp. mitr. pos. libica
-?15 comp. mitr. pos. libica
-?18 comp. mitr. pos. libica
-?19 comp. mitr. pos. libica


Why doubts, might they have arrived later, or been somewhere else?

Thank you for all the above.
Cheers; Dave.

#4 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 05:19 PM

 david, on 19 January 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Dili.

I had LXII Btg Carri L, but as part of Marmarica.


Compagnia Numbers?


Why doubts, might they have arrived later, or been somewhere else?

Thank you for all the above.


I think the Carri L btg were split before.


Number 3ª should have been with ? also since i have that same unit in Zuara. The automitragliatrice don't have the number.

14,15,18,19 might have been there 10 June but not sure. They were said to be in Giarabub at time of surrender of this fort.
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#5 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 05:37 PM

This is an excellent on-line source that gives an idea of first combats in the zone and some OdB http://xoomer.virgil...1_BirGhirba.xml with some reference to mitraglieri units.

Follows a loose translation of GAF defense organization.

sottosettore XXX/a (called Coastal or Amseat) comando di settore in Bardia
Bardia had a fortified ring and outside it "presidi confinari": Ridotta Capuzzo, Bir Ghirba, Sidi Omar e Bir esc Sceferzen that extended from coast to the Libyan interior.

South of Sidi Omar started the XXX/b sottosettore GaF with presidi: Ridotta Maddalena, Uescechet el Eira, El Garn Ul Grein, Scegga and Girabub (comando di settore) already 300 Km from Sea.

The presidi had mostly plotoni di mitraglieri libici and at comando di settore (Bardia e Girabub) there were two compagnie libiche, motorised with light armed vehicles to patrol the border of respective settore.

In months before war there was growing effort to improve the physical defenses(opere di fortificazione) specially in comandi di settore(Bardia, Girabub).


The objectives were defensive: protect the Tobruch naval base while the small coastal harbor of Bardia was an advanced post for supply depots and water. (remember that France was in war and Tunisia was a priority)
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#6 User is offline   david 

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 09:48 PM

Quote

Number 3ª should have been with ? also since i have that same unit in Zuara. The automitragliatrice don't have the number.

I may have misunderstood this part of your original post. Does it refer to the 3rd Compagnia, or 3x Compagnias?

As far as I can tell, 14, 15, 18 & 19 were at Giarabub on 10/06/40.

So Amseat was within the fortress perimeter?
Cheers; Dave.

#7 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 11:11 PM

 david, on 19 January 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

I may have misunderstood this part of your original post. Does it refer to the 3rd Compagnia, or 3x Compagnias?

As far as I can tell, 14, 15, 18 & 19 were at Giarabub on 10/06/40.

So Amseat was within the fortress perimeter?


a)3rd.

b)I don't have solid info of 14,15,18,19 in Girabaub at that time but it is possible

c) No, Amseat the name of settore appears to be a zone near Capuzzo/Solum, see the airfields called Amseat I and II:

http://www.wwii-phot...at%20I%202.html Amseat I is just in Capuzzo. The landing ground of the Capuzzo Fort.

http://www.wwii-phot...gplatz%202.html Amseat II is a bit more North.



I don't think even Menastir was inside Bardia fortification: http://www.wwii-phot...gplatz%202.html

Do you have any Bardia Map with fortification?
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#8 User is offline   david 

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 07:23 AM

Thanks for all the above.


Best map of Bardia fortress I have seen is here.....
http://www.lonesentr...ntel/index.html
Contains an excellent account of the fall, albeit from a Commonwealth perspective.
There is also an account of the first fall of Bardia, when captured by the Australians a year earlier, I'll see if I can find it.
Cheers; Dave.

#9 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:47 PM

That's 1941 and not detailed enough.
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#10 User is offline   david 

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 12:57 AM

 Dili, on 20 January 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

That's 1941 and not detailed enough.

Try a Google maps search perhaps.
Cheers; Dave.

#11 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 04:54 PM

 david, on 21 January 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

Try a Google maps search perhaps.


Sorry. I mean map of defenses. To know how big was the "cinta fortificata"
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#12 User is offline   david 

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 05:08 PM

Now I understand.
I'll keep looking.
Cheers; Dave.

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