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Libia 10/6/40 Let's See If We Can Find Them All

#1 User is offline   Dili 

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 09:28 PM

From here: http://xoomer.virgil...iugno_1940.html

Forces in Africa

2 Armate ---> 5, 10 Armata

5 Corpi d'Armata (1 Camicie Nere) ---> X, XX, XXI, XXII, XXIII CCNN Corps

1 Scacchiere (Corpo d'Armata) ---> Corpo Sahariano

9 Divisioni Fanteria (Autotrasportabili) --->Pavia, Bologna, Brescia, Savona, Sabratha,Sirte, Cirena, Marmarica,Catanzaro

3 Divisioni Camicie Nere ---> XXIII Marzo, XXVIII Ottobre, III Gennaio

2 Divisioni Fanteria Libiche ---> 1º and 2º

1 Raggruppamento Fanteria Libico ---? administrative unit?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

18 Reggimenti Fanteria (54 Battaglioni) -------------> in Infantry Divisions

6 Legioni Camicie Nere (18 Battaglioni) -------------> in CCNN Divisions

5 Raggruppamenti Fanteria Libici (17 Battaglioni) ---> 12 in Libyan Divisions, missing: 5

1 Battaglione Paracadutisti

1 Battaglione Paracadutisti Libico

9 Battaglioni Complementi ----------------------> In 9 Infantry Divisions

3 Battaglioni Camicie Nere Complementi ---------> In 3 CCNN Divisions

9 Battaglioni Mitraglieri ----------------------> In 9 Infantry Divisions

3 Battaglioni Camicie Nere Mitraglieri --------> In 3 CCNN Divisions

7 Battaglioni Carri (L 3/35) -------------------> IX,XX,XXI,LX,LXI,LXII,LXIII

3 Compagnie Bersaglieri Motociclisti -----------> 201º,202º,203º

1 Squadriglia Autoblindo--------------------------------------------> 23º

2 Gruppi Squadroni Cavalleria Libica (1 Savari, 1 Spahis)-----------> 1,2,3,4 squadron Spahis, 1,7 Squadron Savari all in Zuara GAF Settore, 5,6 Savari in Nalut GAF Settore

4 Compagnie Libiche Cammellate (Meharisti)--------------------------> 1,2,3,4 in Sahara Settore(Gadames,Serdeles,Cufra,Hon,Gialo,Sebha,Garian)

21 Compagnie Mortai da 81 ---------------------> 18 in Infantry Div, 3 in CCNN Div

12 Compagnie Controcarro da 47/32--------------> 9 in Infantry Div, 3 in CCNN Div

23 Batterie d'Accompagnamento da 65/17 --------> 18 in Infantry Div, 3 in CCNN Div, 2 in Libyan Div.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12 Reggimenti Artiglieria Motorizzata (12 Gruppi da 100/17, 24 Gruppi

da 75/27, 2 Batterie Controaeree da 20/65) ------------------------> 9 in Infantry Div, 3 in CCNN Div

2 Reggimenti Artiglieria Libica (4 Gruppi da 77/28, 2 Batterie

Controaeree da 20/65) -----------------------------------------------> 2 in Libyan Div.

1 Batteria Artiglieria Libica Cammellata (65/17)---------------------------------> location:Zuara GAF Settore

4 Raggruppamenti Artiglieria di Corpo d'Armata (8 Gruppi da 105/28, 4

Gruppi da 100/17, 4 Gruppi da 75/27, 4 Gruppi Controaerei da

75/27 CK, 8 Batterie Controaeree da 20/65) -------------------------> 10º,20º,21º, 22º Raggrupamentos

1 Raggruppamento Artiglieria d'Armata-------------------------------------------> 5º

1 Raggruppamento Artiglieria Costiera e Controaerei-----------------------------> 30º

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4 Raggruppamenti Genio di Corpo d'Armata (4 Battaglioni Artieri, 4

Battaglioni Telegrafisti e Radiotelegrafisti)-----------------------> 10º,20º,21º,22º

1 Raggruppamento Genio d'Armata (2 Battaglioni Pontieri, 1

Battaglione Telegrafisti e Radiotelegrafisti)----------------------->1º Raggruppamento Speciale Genio

13 Battaglioni Misti Genio -----------------------------------------------------> 9 in Infantry Div., 3 in CCNN Div., Missing one.

2 Compagnie Miste Genio Libico -------------------------------------------------> 2 in Libyan Div's

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12 Settori Guardia alla Frontiera (3 Sottosettori) -----------------------------> XXVIII(Zuara),XXIX(Nalut),XXX(Bardia)-(3
Sottosettori:Amseat,Ponticelli,Giarabub) ,XXXI(Tobruch),XXXII(Tobruch),XXXIII(Tripoli),XXXIV(Tripoli),XXXV(Tripoli),Sud-Est(Tripoli)

1 Sottosettore Autonomo Guardia alla Frontiera----------------------------------> ?Cufra?

1 Battaglione Mitraglieri da Posizione------------------------------------------> CCCXXX in Nalut Settore

2 Gruppi Squadroni Mitraglieri--------------------------------------------------> Aosta and Vittorio Emmanuele

7 Battaglioni Mitraglieri da Posizione Libici-----------------------------------> I,II,III Zuara Settore, IV,V,VI,VII,VIII Nalut Settore

11 Compagnia Mitraglieri da Posizione-------------------------------------------> unknow if GAF, Location: 2 in Zuara settore, 7 in Bardia Settore, 1 in Gialo. Missing : 1

2 Compagnia Mitraglieri da Posizione Libiche------------------------------------> unknow, Location: 2 in Bardia Settore

19 Compagnie Mitraglieri Guardia alla Frontiera (4 Motorizzate)-----------------> unknow if GAF Location: 11 in Saharian Settore missing: 8 . Of the Saharian Settore i have found 10cp :52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61º.

8 Raggruppamenti Artiglieria Guardia alla Frontiera (37 Gruppi)----------------->280ºZuara(4 grps), 290ºNalut(2 Grps),300ºBardia(5 grps),310ºTobruch(3 Grps),320ºTobruch(4Grps), 330ºTripoli(6 grps), 340ºTripoli(6grps), 350ºTripoli(3grps),Sud.Est Tripoli(2 Grps autonomos). 35 misses 2. Maybe the C and CI gruppo of 30º Reggimento Costiero and Contraereo.
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#2 User is offline   david 

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:39 AM

May I respectfully suggest that this is too big. Perhaps if you break it down line by line more people might be tempted to contribute. I for one am keen, but just don't know where to begin!
I'm sure that you would start to get some contributions, discussions and answers that way.
Cheers; Dave.

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 03:26 AM

Well i am not missing much.

Only this:

5 Raggruppamenti Fanteria Libici (17 Battaglioni) ---> 12 Battalions in Libyan Divisions, missing: 5 to have 17 Battalions. They are probably I,V,XVI,XVII,XIX. Which would mean that XVIII appeared after.

13 Battaglioni Misti Genio -----------------------------------------------------> 9 in Infantry Div., 3 in CCNN Div., Missing one battalion. Was there a Bn. Libico Genio?

Then the Machine gun companies where there are big issues and missing more:

11 Compagnia Mitraglieri da Posizione-------------------------------------------> unknow designation if GAF, Location: 2 in Zuara settore, 7 in Bardia Settore, 1 in Gialo. Missing : 1

2 Compagnia Mitraglieri da Posizione Libiche------------------------------------> unknow designation, Location: 2 in Bardia Settore

19 Compagnie Mitraglieri Guardia alla Frontiera (4 Motorizzate)-----------------> i have found 10cp :52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61º
but they might be some of the above.I have also found 2ª compagnia automitragliatrici libica and another automitrigliatrici in Bardia of unknown designation. I suspect the missing MG companies are from Tripoli, Tobruch since we have MG companies from other GAF sectores from Zuara,Bardia etc..doesn't make sense this important fortified sectores do not have any.
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#4 User is offline   david 

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 07:48 AM

OK.

That's easier on the eye.
I will take a look tonight after work.
Cheers; Dave.

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:41 AM

I have found that indeed 50a and 51a Compagnie Mitraglieri da Posizione part of Saharian forces were detached to Tripoli defenses. Still think that are to few companies for Tripoli extended defenses so it should have GAF MG companies too.
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#6 User is offline   david 

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 12:47 AM

Quote

5 Raggruppamenti Fanteria Libici (17 Battaglioni) ---> 12 Battalions in Libyan Divisions, missing: 5 to have 17 Battalions. They are probably I,V,XVI,XVII,XIX. Which would mean that XVIII appeared after.



Agreed.
Cheers; Dave.

#7 User is offline   david 

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 12:51 AM

Quote

13 Battaglioni Misti Genio -----------------------------------------------------> 9 in Infantry Div., 3 in CCNN Div., Missing one battalion. Was there a Bn. Libico Genio?



Yes there was, at Tripoli, but I can't confirm its presence at June 10th 1940 though.
Cheers; Dave.

#8 User is offline   david 

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 12:54 AM

Quote

Then the Machine gun companies where there are big issues and missing more:

11 Compagnia Mitraglieri da Posizione-------------------------------------------> unknow designation if GAF, Location: 2 in Zuara settore, 7 in Bardia Settore, 1 in Gialo. Missing : 1

2 Compagnia Mitraglieri da Posizione Libiche------------------------------------> unknow designation, Location: 2 in Bardia Settore



I can't help with individual Compagnia, unless they formed part of a Battaglione, my records are not detailed enough.
Cheers; Dave.

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 07:44 AM

Can you confirm if companies 50a - 61a belong to any of yours list battalions?
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#10 User is offline   david 

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 12:42 AM

I'll have a look.
Cheers; Dave.

#11 User is offline   david 

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 12:48 AM

Sorry. No Compagnia numbers at all to help you. :(
Cheers; Dave.

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 08:23 AM

I corresponded with website author and there was a mistake. The numbers are 19 Compagnie Mitraglieri da Posizione (4 Motorizzate) and 2 Compagnie Mitraglieri da Posizione Libiche. So 11 doesn't exist.

With 50-61 i have 12 albeit only data from Dec1940 but being in Saharian zone i suspect that wasn't a priority zone to reinforce initially. There was 3 and 6 company mitra. libica at Bardia.
With 1 and 2 automitragliatrice i can have 12+2 auto, plus the 2 lybian. so assuming all this existed in 1940 June i am missing 5.

There was also this one but this was i suspect that data is for 1941 Girabub. Probably they came from Battalions.
http://www.comandosu...h__1#entry88908

14 comp. mitr. libica
15 comp. mitr. libica
18 comp. mitr. libica
19 comp. mitr. libica
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Posted 06 February 2011 - 01:35 PM

One more thing

While i have the Raggrupamentos i don't have all AA gruppo's.

4 Raggruppamenti Artiglieria di Corpo d'Armata (8 Gruppi da 105/28, 4
Gruppi da 100/17, 4 Gruppi da 75/27, 4 Gruppi Controaerei da
75/27 CK, 8 Batterie Controaeree da 20/65) -------------------------> 10,20,21, 22 Raggrupamentos.
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#14 User is offline   david 

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 02:30 PM

So what exactly would you like?
I'll see if I can help.
Cheers; Dave.

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 03:36 PM

Just think aloud i guess :D . If you can fill any thing missing just post.
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#16 User is offline   david 

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 04:54 PM

Language barrier!
I'm still not sure what you want. I don't want to post a load of stuff you already know, so if you can be more specific, I'll try to help......... :)
Cheers; Dave.

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 05:10 PM

You have no info about MG companies so nothing :)
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#18 User is offline   david 

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 12:26 AM

Quote

While i have the Raggrupamentos i don't have all AA gruppo's.

4 Raggruppamenti Artiglieria di Corpo d'Armata (8 Gruppi da 105/28, 4
Gruppi da 100/17, 4 Gruppi da 75/27, 4 Gruppi Controaerei da
75/27 CK, 8 Batterie Controaeree da 20/65) -------------------------> 10,20,21, 22 Raggrupamentos.



I was refering to this............
Can I help?
Cheers; Dave.

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 10:41 AM

Ok. Unless you got recent info no. We already exchanged doubts about Ceirano 75/27CK gruppos's

For 10 June i have XX and XXI confirmed, V Gruppo in doubt, VI arriving before Jully 40 but unclear when. The gun levels i have for 10 June are 24 Ceirano 75/27CK in units and 3 in depots. So this would mean 2 gruppos at full: w/ 12 AA trucks each plus 3 in depot or 3 gruppos w/ around 8 AA trucks each plus 3 in depot. Or 4 gruppos w/ 6 each plus 3 in depot :D. I'll probably vote for 3 gruppos there at start.
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#20 User is offline   david 

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 12:57 AM

Question...
How did the Libyan Infantry Divisions transport their 77/28 guns?
Cheers; Dave.

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