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RSI units VS The Allies

#1 User is offline   glenning 

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 02:50 PM

I was thinking the other day; how many RSI units actually got to the front and fought the allies(the british, american, soviets and french)?

I thought it would be good with some kind of list for future reference, and this is what I've come up with so far;

Various units of the 4 regular ENR divisions;
1st Alpini Div. "Monterosa"
2nd Inf. Div. "Littorio"
3rd Naval Inf. Div. "San Marco"
4th Bersaglieri Div. "Italia"


Various units of the Xª Flottiglia/Divisione MAS

Various units of the 29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS(Italienische nr. 1)

Btg. "IX Settembre"

Btg. "Forlí"

1st Bersaglieri Btg. "B. Mussolini"

Btg. "B.Mussolini" (commanded by Rino Cozzarini.)

13th Black Brigade "Marchello Turchetti"

"Nembo "Autonomous Para. Btg.

Various small units in Normandy

Paratroopers on the eastern front(In german uniform)

Did the paratroopers who fought around Rome belong to Folgore?

If there's anything that isn't correct with this list or if there's anything you'd like to add, let me know!

Ciao,
Glenning
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#2 User is offline   Oasis 

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 06:35 AM

also
II. btg. bersaglieri "Mameli" of 8th regiment bersaglieri (fought on adriatic front and Garfagnana and surrended in the area of Parma.)
"Igne Celerrime Diruo"
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#3 User is offline   Imboscato 

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 04:24 PM

Hi.
IIRC, even a few companies of a GNR battalion - around 200 men - fought against Allied forces in April 1945 in Pianoro, not faraway from Bologna.
Best.
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#4 User is offline   glenning 

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:05 PM

Ah, very interesting! Are there any other records of GNR troops facing the allies in battle?
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#5 User is offline   Imboscato 

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 06:08 PM

Quote

Ah, very interesting! Are there any other records of GNR troops facing the allies in battle?

I don't know and don't think so.
Anyway, if you are able to read Italian language, here you find an old article (april 20th, 1945) on the newspaper "Il Resto del Carlino" dealing with the fight of Pianoro: http://www.fondazionersi.org/mediawiki/ ... Acta16.pdf
Best.
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#6 User is offline   glenning 

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 08:36 PM

Grazie, very interesting!

Does anyone know if the Smoke Troops stationed at the Baltic Sea fought against the Russians?
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#7 User is offline   Frederico Aquini 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 12:28 AM

Glenning,

Yes, I believe so. I'll get back to you later with more info. out of a book I'm borrowing from milice* that has a section on the chemical/smoke units stationed in the Baltic.

Frederico
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#8 User is offline   glenning 

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:23 AM

Grazie Frederico! I find this unit very interesting!
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#9 User is offline   usaOtzie 

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 11:38 AM

Hello all, I truly love this site and all the wonderful minds that make it work...However, each time someone posts something of value to report the first thing out is..."What are your sources...where did you get it from...that's not archived...official reports don't say...Although I truly do understand the need for collective verification for truly as historians we need such verification, I served in Iraq as a Guardsman, and even though no such records exist we even now in the 21st century use captured equipment when the opportunity presents itself. We used Iraqi Civil Defense Land Rovers and even had a serviceable Soviet BRDM at our disposal! All I am trying to state for all the armchair generals out there is that...at times your most valued resource can be the very men that were there. Please, please don't demand such impossible verification but possibly mark it from the moderators bench as unverified. BTW...we also had over 6 conex containers full of various Soviet bloc small arms taken from the enemy and many were used to good effect on a routine basis until the Brigade Intl people got wind of it and the MPs took it all and rightfully handed it over to the newly formed Iraqi Government to reequip their new troops, please understand that this is by no means meant to be rude, All I ask is that you respect the service and the minds of the men who truly did serve Italy, or any other country for that matter and listen to what they are willing to share with us. Very, Very Respectfully, usaOtzie
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#10 User is offline   Jeff Leser 

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 09:12 PM

usaOtzie

Quote

I ask is that you respect the service and the minds of the men who truly did serve Italy, or any other country for that matter and listen to what they are willing to share with us.


Not really sure I understand what you are trying to say. AFAIK, no Italian 2GM veterans are posting on this site. Nothing posted here is first hand information.

Quote

However, each time someone posts something of value to report the first thing out is..."What are your sources...where did you get it from...that's not archived...official reports don't say...


This is the crux of the matter. Is the statement made by a poster here on Comando Supremo taken from a source or is it merely speculation? As I have stated, no 2GM Italian veterans are members of this forum. So anything posted by a forum member came from somewhere. Many here don’t initially offer the source for their statements and therefore are asked to provide it.

Sometimes the idea/concept is initially speculation. Note the speculation, when driven by verifiable data, can lead to new research and discovery of knowledge. Just saying Italy could have won the 2GM is meaningless; stating Italy could have won the 2GM and offering a logical discussion using verifiable facts provides value to the discussion.

Quote

Please, please don't demand such impossible verification but possibly mark it from the moderators bench as unverified.


Most here on the forum are not asking for ‘impossible validation’. They are merely asking for something that indicates that the idea/concept being offered is something more that wishful thinking. Too often on websites an individual will offer a thought/position on the matter that counters accepted thinking. Rather than offering anything verifiable as a starting point, they just argue it could be so regardless of the mountain of data offer to refute the thought/position. Some members now ask for some logic showing that the thought/position (or the individual) merits being taken seriously before they ‘jump into the fray’.

Many of the individuals on Comando Supremo are reenactors. Part of the hobby is educating the public. Are there exceptions to everything? Likely yes.

To take your own example of weapons in Iraq. Did soldiers in your unit use captured weapons? It appears the answer is yes. Did you unit/army have a policy to use capture weapons whenever possible? The answer is no. In fact, use of the captured weapons was not condoned and they were confiscated when the leadership/authorities became aware of their existence. As a reenactor, would it be correct to carry a captured weapon as part of a display or tactical event? No, because your army took the time and effort to equip you with the proper weapons. Could you carry a captured weapon if the display was for a specific historical action in which it is well documented that the unit (not an individual) carried and used capture weapons? Yes, but the display should be clear that this was a unique event and not the norm.

This specific thread was identifying historical actions between formed R.S.I. units and Allied forces. Why ask this question? Because it is well documented that most R.S.I. units were used in rear area security or in the Balkans. Is it historically correct to have R.S.I. units as part of a tactical against American, UK/Commonwealth, and other Allied troops? Generally no, it is not historic. But as this thread demonstrates, there are exceptions. Therefore event organizers can offer a tactical event that includes R.S.I. units in such situations.

Again, I am not sure of the point you are attempting to make.

Pista!

Jeff
btg. sciatori Alpini « Monte Cervino » (reenacted)
19° reggimento fanteria « Brescia » (reenacted)

#11 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:50 PM

I got the strange feeling he has posted in the wrong place...
melius esse quam videri

#12 User is offline   glenning 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 02:29 PM

I was wondering if anyone could provide me with a unit history of the 1st Bersaglieri Btg. "B. Mussolini"?

Grazie!
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#13 User is offline   Imboscato 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 06:47 PM

AFAIK, there were more than one battaglione "Mussolini" in RSI forces.
If you are able to read italian, this page can be useful:
http://www.italia-rs...gl/bersmuss.htm
Even here: http://books.google.it/books?id=hihmEt6 ... ni&f=false
you could find something, although I' m not sure that the preview allows the see the pages dedicated to Mussolini battalion.
Best.
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#14 User is offline   glenning 

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 12:42 AM

Ah yes I know!
Grazie! I'll check out the links! :D
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#15 User is offline   john.torress 

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 06:36 AM

The links are quite good and they are helpful huh.....



:wink: :wink: :wink:
brass knuckles
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