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Re-enacting the Army of the South?

#21 User is offline   sgtbrown 

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 01:55 AM

Can anyone recommend a good book (in English) on the Army of the South?

Tom
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"The German is like the June bride. He knows he is going to get it; he just doesn't know how big it will be." General Richard "Windy" Gale to the 6th Paras just prior to D-Day
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#22 User is offline   Jeff Leser 

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 02:12 AM

Tom

I wish I could. Unfortunately, nothing has been written exclusively on the Co-belligerent Army in English. There are 5 volumes in the Italian officials that cover the Southern Forces. Viotti has a complete section on the uniforms worn in his book.

The best sources in English likely are the US Army Green Books and the UK (The Mediterranean and Middle East), and Commonwealth Officials. However, these don’t cover the Italian operations in great details, but in adjunct to the US and UK operations.

Pista!

Jeff
btg. sciatori Alpini « Monte Cervino » (reenacted)
19° reggimento fanteria « Brescia » (reenacted)

#23 User is offline   Gian 

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 10:57 AM

Quote

I wish I could. Unfortunately, nothing has been written exclusively on the Co-belligerent Army in English. There are 5 volumes in the Italian officials that cover the Southern Forces. Viotti has a complete section on the uniforms worn in his book.

Jeff, YES I CAN! You know I have a talent for that. But as I mentioned earlier, it takes two publisher to sell and buy the book's rights.
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#24 User is offline   sgtbrown 

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:22 AM

Gian said:

Jeff, YES I CAN! You know I have a talent for that. But as I mentioned earlier, it takes two publisher to sell and buy the book's rights.


Gian,

Do you or any of the other regulars here have books that were translated from Italian originals? If so, why not contact the publishers of those? If they have been involved in a translation before they might do it again.

Tom
********************************
"The German is like the June bride. He knows he is going to get it; he just doesn't know how big it will be." General Richard "Windy" Gale to the 6th Paras just prior to D-Day
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#25 User is offline   Jeff Leser 

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:49 PM

Tom

I am not aware of any books translated from the Italian that I don't own that cover the areas we are interested in. That list, unfortunately, is quite short.

Gian's point is that he could translate, but you need an English language publisher to buy the rights from the Italian publisher. Given the level of interest in the 2GM Italian military (low), buying the rights is unlikely (no profit).

The only option is to do it yourself. That is why I buy Italian books and work through them. I am slowly translating Lucinao Viazzi's 1940-1943 I diavoli bianchi because that is the history of the unit I reenact. It is one of the few books that might find a larger audience in the English reading world because the Monte Cervino is a very interesting unit.

Viotti's book on uniforms might also be a possibility. I have translated chapters of it. It is a USSME work, so it might be easier to obtain the English publication rights (or the Italian military might translate it themselves). Marzetti’s Uniform book is another option. As an avid militaria collector, (and the picture captions are already translated), he might consider an English edition.

The only other hope is a PhD dissertation. In fact, there might some already that were never published as books. More dissertations are being scanned and placed on-line.

In all, Italian reenacting is a labor of love as one must work through the lack of English language materials and the generally low level of interest generated by the Italian military. This is to bad as it is a very interesting army in a very difficult situation.

Pista!

Jeff
btg. sciatori Alpini « Monte Cervino » (reenacted)
19° reggimento fanteria « Brescia » (reenacted)

#26 User is offline   sgtbrown 

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:54 PM

Jeff,

That's what I was saying. Find books you know were translated from Italian - even any that have nothing to do with military topics - and contact the publisher of those. If they bought the English rights to an Italian book before they might do it again.

As for uniform books, again, Schiffer Publishing. They publish tons of military topic "picture books" and might be interested in doing some on Italian topics.

For either of the above options, the worst they can do is say "no". You don't know if you don't ask.

Another option, at least for "picture books"... One of my prime sources on Japanese gear is a book in Japanese. Included with it is a (poor) addendum booklet with translations of the photo captions. Take, for example, Viotti. Translate the text and photo captions, convert it to a PDF file, slap it onto a CD and sell it to people who have the original book. I can't see the publisher complaining too much as the PDF isn't a whole lot of good without their book and, in fact, the existence of the translation should boost sales of the original.

Just some thoughts.

Tom
********************************
"The German is like the June bride. He knows he is going to get it; he just doesn't know how big it will be." General Richard "Windy" Gale to the 6th Paras just prior to D-Day
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#27 User is offline   Gian 

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:04 PM

The other day I spoke over the phone to a smaller publisher who added some interesting works to the WWII galaxy. I had submitted my resume to him: he literally took me off guard and said he was folding. Apparently, publishing is becoming harder for those who do not belong to a colossus.

So what do we do if the publisher is defunct?
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#28 User is offline   Jeff Leser 

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:23 PM

Tom

Quote

Take, for example, Viotti. Translate the text and photo captions, convert it to a PDF file, slap it onto a CD and sell it to people who have the original book.


II wish it was so, but that won't work. Major copyright violation. Copyright laws detail how much content can be used 'freely' before a violation occurs. That bench mark is so low as to make such an approach impossible (two-three lines). That is if you are posting the material for free. Selling immediately is a red flag. Understand that some of the information posted on forums is likely crossing the line (especially if not cited, which happens all too frequently).

Better to write your own article/book. You are already doing the research by translating the book.

Pista!

Jeff
btg. sciatori Alpini « Monte Cervino » (reenacted)
19° reggimento fanteria « Brescia » (reenacted)

#29 User is offline   Jeff Leser 

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 05:27 PM

Gian

The rights to the book belong to someone. If the company is now defunct, the rights are an asset that have been awarded to someone. Based on the original agreement, they could return to the author.

The ownership would need to be researched before a book can be published again.

Pista!

Jeff
btg. sciatori Alpini « Monte Cervino » (reenacted)
19° reggimento fanteria « Brescia » (reenacted)

#30 User is offline   yeshadette21 

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:40 AM

sgtbrown said:

I'm afraid the only teaming up possible is here at CS. :( And in my case, due to my medical situation, I couldn't actively re-enact anyhow. My main interest is simply to put together a representative uniform for an Army of the South soldier.

Tom


It is too sad for me to know about your condition. Try to re-enact again. You could probably put your goal up- build the representative uniform for an Army of the South soldier.
My TV shows Printing
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#31 User is offline   histjunky 

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:56 PM

Any luck putting these impressions together? I am interested in a Gruppo Impression as I have some British and Commonwealth gear. Any help would be most appreciated!!!

Here is what I have found so far from a post made by Lupo back in 2002 on another forum here is the link: http://www.feldgrau....c.php?f=47&t=55




"To give an idea, the OOB of CIL at his birth was (april 1944) was:

68th Infantry Regiment
4th Bersaglieri Regiment
Alpini Battalion "Piemonte"
Marine Battalion "Bafile"
185th Para Battalion
11th Artillery Regiment

While the last OOB of CIL in august 1944 was:

1st CIL Brigade
3rd Alpini Regiment
4th Bersaglieri Regiment
185th Para Battalion
4th Pack Artillery Battalion

2nd CIL Brigade
68th Infantry Regiment
"San Marco" Marine Regiment
9th Commando Battalion
5th Pack Artillery Battalion

"Nembo" Para Division
183th Para Regiment
184th Para Regiment
184th Para Assault Battalion
184th Artillery Regiment

11th Motorized Artllery Regiment (on five battalions)

51th Engineer Battalion

Infantry Regiments were on two battalions

at your dispo

Lupo"
Thanks!
Chris
"Tuttofare"

Recreated:
  • 53rd Reg. 2nd Sforzesca Div: France and Russia
  • 30th Bn. Montebello legion MVSN: Russia
  • 4th/1st Italia Div: Italy late 1944-45
  • 4th Div "Monterosa": Gothic line Dec 1944
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