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Brescia?

#1 User is offline   arditi1917 

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 12:33 PM

Hello,

I have used the search engine and have only been able to find some info on the Brescia Brigade/Div? in North Africa. I was wondering if there was a good time line for the unit during WW2. Were they rebuilt and used in the RSI? Does anyone know of photos of the unit during WW2 at any point? From this web site, it seams as if they were a good unit being pared up with Folgore and the 90th light inf. or was it the case that a semi decent unit was highlighted by elite units? I am quite interested in any books/information or photos of the Brescia Brigade

Grazie!!
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#2 User is offline   Oasis 

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 07:44 AM

Brescia during WWII was a division

did you try this link?

http://www.regioesercito.it/reparti/fan ... ediv27.htm

The only two books on Brescia division (the second with some pictures) I know are:

- Lombardi G., La Divisione “Brescia” – da El Agheila a El Alamein gennaio-luglio 1942, De Franco, Reggio Calabria ?1961?

- Lombardi G., Pipe e soldati, Cuneo 1965.

regards

Toni
"Igne Celerrime Diruo"
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#3 User is offline   david 

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 01:40 PM

If you do a search on this forum for "Brescia" you should get quite a lot of interesting stuff! :)
Cheers; Dave.

#4 User is offline   arditi1917 

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 03:40 PM

Thanks again for all the info! I found this image on Wikipedia and it has me a lil confused. :roll: I am curious if the div was disbanded after el alamein then is this insignia correct?
Posted Image

http://en.wikipedia....div_brescia.jpg
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#5 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 06:24 PM

the three symbols are, left to right, the sleeve shield of brescia division in 1940, the mostrine (collars) for 19th and 20th Infantry Regiment and the mostrine for 55th Artillery Regiment. I don't understand where's your trouble...
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#6 User is offline   arditi1917 

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 06:32 PM

Ah ha. The 55th Artillery was throwing me off.. as I thought it might be RSI.. Now I understand Grazie!!!!!. Would the shield be worn on the uniform in North Africa and is the color of the mostrin correct as I have seen online reference in graphic form of it being a purple color to a maroon color (as shown). Curious which is a better representation of the correct color?
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#7 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 08:02 PM

that's the mostrine as reported on Italian Army website.

About the shield: theorically they were officially cancelled between 1940 and 1941, so certainly they were worn in first period. After 1941, it was still possible to see them sometimes but not as a rule.

Attached File(s)


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#8 User is offline   Jeff Leser 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:41 PM

arditi

I am glad Lupo helped you. I am beginning to work on information for the WWII Bresica division. I will start filling-in the history and other aspects of the division.

As you surmised, we elected to reenact Bresica for our A.S. impression to link with your WWI reenacting group. Gives members in either organization a place to go if they decide to reenact the other period.

Pista!

Jeff
btg. sciatori Alpini « Monte Cervino » (reenacted)
19° reggimento fanteria « Brescia » (reenacted)

#9 User is offline   Oasis 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 05:45 PM

Jeff, I am interested in Brescia division history too.
We could exchange each other some informations...

Regards

Toni
"Igne Celerrime Diruo"
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#10 User is offline   david 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 05:54 PM

Likewise! :)
Cheers; Dave.

#11 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 06:16 PM

and with me, four!
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#12 User is offline   david 

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 09:36 PM

Can we start by trying to establish a set of arrival dates in North Africa for each of the component Battaglione of Divisione Brescia?

I can't find any details prior to 10th June 1940.

If you like, I can post the dates that I have got and we can correct them as necessary.
Cheers; Dave.

#13 User is offline   arditi1917 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 12:15 AM

Great to hear I am trying to put together the same impression for AS. I have listed some links below on some of the things I have found some have more than others but hopefully it helps piece the puzzle together. Also another probable approach would be to contact the current active duty 20 reggiemnto that also takes its lineage from the WW1-WW2 20 reggimento. They might have a better history of the unit. That could be a bit more detailed.


http://www.mielants....n/GSASL10B.html

http://calabriainarmi.altervista.org/ar ... escia.html
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#14 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 07:30 AM

arditi1917 said:

Also another probable approach would be to contact the current active duty 20 reggiemnto that also takes its lineage from the WW1-WW2 20 reggimento. They might have a better history of the unit. That could be a bit more detailed.


It doesn't exist more
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#15 User is offline   Oasis 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 10:04 AM

david said:

Can we start by trying to establish a set of arrival dates in North Africa for each of the component Battaglione of Divisione Brescia?

I can't find any details prior to 10th June 1940.

If you like, I can post the dates that I have got and we can correct them as necessary.


It results to me that the Division was sent in Libya from 1 dec 1939 near Tripoli for training; then, on 10 june 1940 it is deployed (in the X CdA) in the area of Zauia, on the frontier with Tunisia, where from 10 to 25 june clashed with irregular tunisian bands.

http://www.regioesercito.it/reparti/fan ... ediv27.htm

Toni
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#16 User is offline   Oasis 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 10:08 AM

arditi1917 said:



I found this a funny simulation beginning with the site page... :shock:
Hope it is totally "works in progress"

Toni
"Igne Celerrime Diruo"
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#17 User is offline   Jeff Leser 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:50 PM

As they say, it is best to start at the beginning.

When did Bresica transfer to A.S.? My sources are limited, but both indicate the Brescia transferred to A.S. between September and November 1939. L’esercito italiano tra la 1° e la 2°guerra mondiale (page 183) on 1° September states (after discussing the units currently stationed in A.S.) "To the fore mentioned corps two more metropolitan were subsequently assigned, the Bresica (to the X) and the Pavia (to the XX), so that both corps for a time had three divisions.“ This passage indicates that the two divisions were not present in A.S. on 1°settembre. On page 184, in the discussion of the situation of the forces in A.S. in November (no specific date provided), it includes the two divisions. So Brescia must have been placed on orders, shipped, and arrived in A.S. between 1°sett. and 30°nov. 1939. In Africa settentrionale: La Preparazione al Conflitto l'Avanzata su Sidi el Barrani, Ottobre 1935 - Settembre 1940 has similar language.

Montanari’s L’esercito italiano alla vigilia della 2°guerra mondiale states that A.S. was reinforced to a total of 170,000 men September-October 1939 (page 97). This implies that the transfer was executed in those two months.

This is what I have be able to discover.

Oasis

All I found was a spreadsheet. They don't know that Italian companies are numbered, not lettered.

Pista!

Jeff
btg. sciatori Alpini « Monte Cervino » (reenacted)
19° reggimento fanteria « Brescia » (reenacted)

#18 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 06:23 PM

italian mobilization started after german attack to Poland...the movement of brescia in NA was part of the plan from peacetime.

Remember that mobilization included also to take divisions 60th-63th to wartime tables...and this mainly thru people from italian mainland, local enrolement was really scarce.

Morale, I'd take for sure brescia didn't move before september 1939 but no more
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#19 User is offline   Jeff Leser 

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 08:36 PM

Lupo

I agree that Brescia didn't move before September 1939. All three of the sources make it very clear that the division was physically present in A.S. in Nov 39. Unless there is some better/different information, we have the deployment/movement of Bresica identifed to Sep-Oct.

Jeff
btg. sciatori Alpini « Monte Cervino » (reenacted)
19° reggimento fanteria « Brescia » (reenacted)

#20 User is offline   david 

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 12:24 AM

Quote

Can we start by trying to establish a set of arrival dates in North Africa for each of the component Battaglione of Divisione Brescia?


I'm looking for more detail here.

For instance I'm assuming that Toni & Jeff refer (above) to I/19; II/19. I/20; II/20. At least,
but what about XXVII Btg A.C? III/20? XXVII Btg Mitraglieri? XXVII Btg Misto genio?
IIGr/55? IIIGr/55? Do you "lump" all of the latter units in there at that time as well?
Cheers; Dave.

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