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L3 controcarro

#1 User is offline   dunkelrot_erhob_sich 

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 10:51 AM

Does anyone have any pictures of the L3 controcarro? or any idea how many were made?
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#2 User is offline   quillin 

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 12:40 PM

here are a couple of sites that can get you started with the technical info. WWII vehicles hasa couple pics
http://www.comandosu.../CarroCV33.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L3/35
http://www.wwiivehic...cv-33-cv-35.asp
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#3 User is offline   Davide Pastore 

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:39 PM

dunkelrot_erhob_sich said:

or any idea how many were made?


If you refer to the 47/32 version (whose photographs are very common) the answer is very simple: only one (never used in action).

If you refer to the Solothurn version, the answer is more difficult: "some", being a number with surely no more than two digits, and possibly only one digit.
Davide

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siete adatti per ricevere e tramandare la trasmissione."

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#4 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:51 PM

no SO few Davide, not only the number of L3/solothurn trasformed in NA had never been exactly determined but a certain number was still in use in 1943...
melius esse quam videri

#5 User is offline   dunkelrot_erhob_sich 

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 09:07 PM

Yes, i was referring to the Solothurn version, any more info on it?

and on this site
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/italy/tanke ... -cv-35.asp
it says some were fitted with 20mm AT riffles, is this the same thingas the Solothurn version?

and it says there was an order for ones with a 37mm gun, were there ever any produced with 37mm guns? :?
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#6 User is offline   Davide Pastore 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:57 AM

dunkelrot_erhob_sich said:

it says some were fitted with 20mm AT riffles, is this the same thingas the Solothurn version?


There was only one 20mm ATR ever built, and it was built by Solothurn.


dunkelrot_erhob_sich said:

and it says there was an order for ones with a 37mm gun, were there ever any produced with 37mm guns? :?


A very doubtful assertion.
According to Cappellano & Pignato, "1,300 ordered, including 200 with special armament, later cancelled". There is no mention of weapons: they could be as well 12.7mm or 13.2mm.

Moreover, I would like to see how to mount a 37mm inside a L3! :?
Davide

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siete adatti per ricevere e tramandare la trasmissione."

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#7 User is offline   dunkelrot_erhob_sich 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 05:45 AM

ah

one final question.

Posted Image

whats this? :?
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#8 User is offline   quillin 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 07:45 AM

best guess would be a L3 with a spear :D
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#9 User is offline   Davide Pastore 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 08:44 AM

L3 with a Solothurn, in a different position.
According to Cappellano & Pignato, the installation inside the hull in place of the MGs was extremely cramped due to the lenght of the weapon.
Davide

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siete adatti per ricevere e tramandare la trasmissione."

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#10 User is offline   Bob Starr 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 01:43 PM

I've done a little research on the Solothurn and yes it was a very large "rifle". The reciever unit alone, that which would be in the tankettes compartment, was approximately 2 and a half feet long. This woul indeed cramp the small compartment for the commander/gunner. The barrel length ran, depending on the particular model, anywhere from 4-6 feet in length. David don't mean to rain on your parade but there was another 20mm AT rifle, the Lahti used by the Finns primarily during the Winter War. I believe one of the early Polish tankettes also mounted a 20mm AT gun but I don't think it was ever designed to not be vehicle mounted. Good to see this little known vehicle, I often wondered about the Solothurn being vehicle mounted somehow. Would have made a great little airborne anti-tank weapon don't you think, imagine this little guy running around in your artillery area!!!! Bob
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#11 User is offline   Davide Pastore 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 02:25 PM

Bob Starr said:

David


My name is Davide (and I'm very pricky about it, my dear Roberto Stella :x )

Bob Starr said:

there was another 20mm AT rifle, the Lahti used by the Finns primarily during the Winter War


Really? Never heard about it.
Davide

"Solo se la vostra visione va oltre quella del vostro maestro,
siete adatti per ricevere e tramandare la trasmissione."

(Massima Zen)
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#12 User is offline   quillin 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 03:41 PM

So the big pointy thing is the barrel.
Tell me, how good were these tanketts? The big gun on a small tankette doesn't seem to be practical to operate.
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#13 User is offline   Bob Starr 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:33 PM

Sorry Davide I'm to used to Anglican versions of names. Did not mean to offend! Quillen yes the long pointy thing is the barrrel. The Solothurn was originally designed to operate from it's own 2 wheeled transport, for manpack movement. It's actually a pretty neat little weapon when all together and supposedly functioned well in the field environment, unfortunately soon after the start of WW2 20mm anti-tank weapons were soon outclassed by the armor on the primary battle tanks. Bob
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#14 User is offline   Ardee 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:50 PM

IIRC, only 1 or 2 Lahti Soloranta ATRs, plus maybe a prototype, were used during the Winter War. I am not sure what use it had during the Continuation War (my memory not being what it use to be), but I believe it was during this time (since it was ineffective against tanks) it was converted to a full-auto AA weapon. Use as such probably continued into the Lapland War.

There were actually more 20mm ATRs as well. Solothurn put out more than one model; the version used by the Hungarians, for example, was quite different from the one used by the Italians. But there's also the Japanese Type 97 ATR...and I don't promise this to be an exhaustive list!
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#15 User is offline   missyd 

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 05:14 PM

I have a picture of a italian CV33/35 with a 20mm Solothurn Anti Tank RIFLE.
The photo was taken in Sicilia and can be found in the book about the RSI from 1942-1945 (3 books).
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#16 User is offline   Inspecteur Clouzot 

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:47 PM

dunkelrot_erhob_sich said:

one final question.


One post-final question, from looking at the picture: are gunners recruited from men who are either very brave or already fathered large families?
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#17 User is offline   quillin 

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 08:46 AM

I don't see what large families had to do with it.
I think we all agree that the Italian army was as brave as any other army but where the infantry surrendered easly to several tanks rolling unstoppable to a trench, the gunners might be shooting to the last, hoping to score a lucky hit and stop the tank before it shoots at them.

I don't think there's a way to select for braveness during training. War does a lot of strange things to a man. Brave men my collapse under the pressure of exploding shells (shell shock) while cowards might stand up and lead a charge.
Maybe why so many italian gunners fired until they were death was selfpreservation. As long as they were firing, they were fighting back and had a change to survive the assault. If they had run away, in the open dessert, they were an easy target.
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#18 User is offline   Natxo 

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 11:21 PM

I can post here this picture of a Solothurn from the Infantry Branch Museum in Toledo, Spain.

Posted Image
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#19 User is offline   Natxo 

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 11:22 PM

Excuse me if itīs too much big. :(
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