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Identification/confirmation of units in North Africa.

#1 User is offline   david 

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 10:24 AM

I would like to try and see if we can confirm the existance of any number of obscure or small or independente Italian/Libyan units that may have been present in North Africa during the hostlities.

I have a massive list myself, quite apart from what you guys come up with!

Some of them are bound to be typos or repetitions, or new designations for older units, but there are bound to be a lot of the 'genuine article' too.

May I suggest that we just tackle one unit at a time, and not move on to the next one, until the latter has been fully explored. I think it will get less confusing this way.

I look forward to lots of discussion here, for many months (years :!: :wink: :) ) to come!


EVERYBODY PLEASE NOTE:

THIS IS NOT MY THREAD! :wink:
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO POST QUESTIONS OF YOUR OWN ON HERE TOO. :)
Cheers; Dave.

#2 User is offline   david 

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 10:29 AM

Let's make a start.

I have a XXXI (31) (I'm doing that to avoid typos) G.a.F Reggimento.

& a

XXXI (31) Libica Costieri defence Battaglione.

& a

XXXI (31) Raggrupamento (or Reggimento) Costieri.

Are they three seperate units, or just different titles for the same unit. Or even two units?
Cheers; Dave.

#3 User is offline   david 

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:17 PM

Hello?

Anybody interested?
Cheers; Dave.

#4 User is offline   antonio 

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 07:09 PM

Hi David, very good idea.

Where do you find the XXXI Lybian coastal battalion?, What is your source?

Leo Niehorster mention a 31 raggruppamento artiglieria controaerei in Tripolitania in october 1942.

In Mario Montanari Vol2 (april 41-jan 42), I found a mention of a raggruppamento controaerei Tripolitania with 3 gruppi 88mm.

Maybe these two units are the same
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#5 User is offline   david 

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 07:39 PM

Antonio.

I had the 31st Niehorster unit as a Reggimento, not a Raggrupamento.
If I was wrong, then that is one unit correctly identified.
I'll edit my original post to reflect this.

Montanari has his designations wrong for the 88/56 units. They should read..... 3 x Independente Gruppi (Not Ragg) each of 3 x Batteria (not Gruppi) of 4 x guns. I've identified all three Gruppi, and 4 of the 9 Batteria.

Thanks. David.

Can't remember original source of Costieri Defence Battaglione. Might it be Libyan?


And what about the G.a.F Reggimento?
Cheers; Dave.

#6 User is offline   david 

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 11:52 PM

Can anyone add anything to this discussion?

If not, I'll move on to another unit in a day or so.
Cheers; Dave.

#7 User is offline   Davide Pastore 

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 08:40 AM

david said:

Can anyone add anything to this discussion?


The problem is (in this case, as in many others) that you, possibly, know more about the topic than anyone else here!
Davide

"Solo se la vostra visione va oltre quella del vostro maestro,
siete adatti per ricevere e tramandare la trasmissione."

(Massima Zen)
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#8 User is offline   david 

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 08:58 AM

Quote

The problem is (in this case, as in many others) that you, possibly, know more about the topic than anyone else here!


But not enough! :wink: :)
Cheers; Dave.

#9 User is offline   david 

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 09:12 AM

Okay, let's try the next one. (But feel free to add to previous units).


I have a listing of a 10th Misto Genio Reggimento, is this for real?

I know about an X (10) Arditi/Artieri Battaglione. So the above might be a typo.

Let me know. :)
Cheers; Dave.

#10 User is offline   david 

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:52 PM

Going back to the previous units (XXXI). Some progress......

XXXI G.a.F Reggimento is a typo for Battaglione. It is the Settore 31 unit from Tobruk @ 10/06/40.

XXXI Ragg or Reg (Still not sure which?) is the combined Coastal/ Anti Aircraft unit from Tripoli, in the same timeframe. Though why this is not numbered XXXII, like all the other Settore 32 units is a mystery.

XXXI Libica Costieri Defence Battaglione, was supposedly in Tobruk @ 10th June 1940 & is Infantry not artillery, but is still the big mystery of the three.
Cheers; Dave.

#11 User is offline   david 

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:53 PM

Anyone got anythinhg to say re the X Engineer unit?
Cheers; Dave.

#12 User is offline   voloire 

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:30 PM

hello, very distinguished gentleman!!!

At june 1940 I got, as units of X corpo d'armata, X raggruppamento genio;

at oct 1942 in X corpo d'armata I got:

X Btg genio artieri
X Btg collegamenti (is indicated as genio units)

Unfortunately, no infos about TO&E or other....

Let me know-...
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#13 User is offline   david 

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:50 PM

Voloire.
Thanks. :)



X Btg collegamenti (is indicated as genio units)


Got a location for it @ 23/10/42?

Or a date of arrival/raising?
Cheers; Dave.

#14 User is offline   david 

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 08:59 AM

Voloire?
Cheers; Dave.

#15 User is offline   david 

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 11:07 AM

Voloire or anyone?
Cheers; Dave.

#16 User is offline   david 

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 12:31 AM

3 days, no reply. Holidays?
Cheers; Dave.

#17 User is offline   david 

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 11:11 PM

I'll move on, but feel free to return to this, or any of the older unit queries.

Next query......

Was the 2/I Libica Battaglione the same unit as the I Libica Battaglione that was part of the 1st Libica Reggimento, which was at Sidi Aziz on June 10th 1940? Or was it a seperate unit altogether?
Cheers; Dave.

#18 User is offline   voloire 

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 09:28 AM

Sorry, distinguished gentleman, but in this period I don't even got time to p... !!
By the way:
X collegamenti at 23 oct. 1942 : El taqua, AFAIK
the two units ( X collegamenti and X artieri) probably arrived in NA in dec. 1940-gen 1941
Dicvisioni fanteria libica were reorganized on march 1, 1940. New composition and new OOBB.

Let me know
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#19 User is offline   david 

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 10:10 PM

Thanks.

X Battaglione Collagamenti; do we have a breakdown of the Compagnia that made up this unit?

Re the Libyan unit; was it the same one re-numbered, or a completely different unit?
Cheers; Dave.

#20 User is offline   david 

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 10:44 PM

Without forgetting the two previously unanswered questions, I'll move on.

20th Cdo (G.a.F?) (Zuara). What is this unit? Is it a Battaglione?
Cheers; Dave.

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