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Pith Helmets

#61 User is offline   Custermen 

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 03:05 AM

Check out this site. It has OOB chart for every army of every country. This is the menu for ITALY.
http://niehorster.or...aly/__italy.htm

OOB for German-Italian Army at El Alamein:
http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany ... z-aok.html
Then click on a command to see more sub-units.
X Army Corps OOB:
http://niehorster.orbat.com/019_italy/4 ... ps_10.html

OOB for 5th Army in June 1940:
http://niehorster.orbat.com/019_italy/4 ... my_05.html
This shows a 10th Corps Artillery "regiment group" under command of a corps led by Gen A. Barbieri that consists of two numbered artillery "battalions". This makes sense to me----except the symbol indicates motorized artillery. Note to the right is the 5th Army artillery and its four battalions.

Steve
http://www.custermen.com = History & photos on US 85th Custer Division in Italy and other info on the Allies in the Italian Campaign, 1944-45.
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#62 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 03:43 PM

ok, we need an explanation (Note: I'm sorry but it's a chaotical topic and I fear my english is not so good to be fully understandable...again I'm suffering a flu... :cry: )

Unluckily I'm not so fond in US military to make a comparison but WWII Italian system was largely different by US one.

In peacetime, every italian permanent corps had a group of fixed assets which included a Corps Artillery Regiment (before 1934 this was called an Heavy Field Artillery Regiment) which was a permanent unit with an own depot; it beared the same number of the Corps.
So the X Corps has as permanent asset the 10th Corps Artillery Regiment.

At mobilization act, the Corps Artillery Regiment made something strange. The regiment splitted in two: the command and the depot reorganized as a mobilization and formation center while combat battalions and batteries were organized in "Raggruppamenti" regiment-level which went to the front. A regiment could form many raggruppamenti during war which would have been considered as "expansions" of the forming regiment and continued often to bear the original number on the insigna, being the "raggruppamento" a provisional formation.
I got the 10th Corps Artillery Regiment having formed during WWII the Raggruppamenti 10th, 16th and 25th all fighting in NA.

There's a trouble: which number had the personnel of Raggruppamenti on their hats? Well, sincerly I've still to find a definitive answer. In my opinion, many had the original regiment one but it's possible many had the raggrupamento one

open to correction
melius esse quam videri

#63 User is offline   Caudium 

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 08:15 PM

Question: Did the Mantova division serve in North africa at all? I see that they were in the north and were supossed to be in sicily sept 43, but can't find any info of them being in NA.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEL-CASCO-COLONIALE ... dZViewItem

would this be an incorrect badge to go with this pith?
2006 FIFA World Cup Champions
La Coppa Nostra
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#64 User is offline   Lupo Solitario 

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 01:10 PM

Caudium said:

Question: Did the Mantova division serve in North africa at all? I see that they were in the north and were supossed to be in sicily sept 43, but can't find any info of them being in NA.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEL-CASCO-COLONIALE ... dZViewItem

would this be an incorrect badge to go with this pith?


Absolutely NO! The Mantova division had been formed in 1942 as autotrasportabile unit. It took part in southern france occupation in late 1942, was in Calabria at armistice and joined the cobelligerent army.
I'd bet everything that no soldier of 113th Infantry had ever touched african sands
melius esse quam videri

#65 User is offline   Caudium 

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 10:53 PM

Lupo Solitario said:

Caudium said:

Question: Did the Mantova division serve in North africa at all? I see that they were in the north and were supossed to be in sicily sept 43, but can't find any info of them being in NA.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEL-CASCO-COLONIALE ... dZViewItem

would this be an incorrect badge to go with this pith?


Absolutely NO! The Mantova division had been formed in 1942 as autotrasportabile unit. It took part in southern france occupation in late 1942, was in Calabria at armistice and joined the cobelligerent army.
I'd bet everything that no soldier of 113th Infantry had ever touched african sands


Lupo, Grazie . Also I myself am a betting man, but only with texas holdem. When it comes to Italian military history i won't dare bet against you. :wink:
I still have a question i posted elsewhere on CS about why some badges the numbers are in red and some in black. That 113th Mantova badge is a perfect example. Was there any significance regarding the colour of the number on the fregio(badge)?

Vittorio
2006 FIFA World Cup Champions
La Coppa Nostra
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