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61st anniversary of Mussolini's death

#1 User is offline   e.muti 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 02:06 AM

Hello

Just wanted to remind everyone that this month does mark the the event's that led to the capture/execution of "Il Duce" Benito Mussolini. This is not meant to condone or glorify the wrongs of the past but to remember the man as a historical figure of my interest. My personal
connection to all this is that me being of Spanish origin and having had family which participated in the Spanish civil war on the side of nationalist's it was Mussolini's "assistance" that prevented Spain from becoming a communist state. I welcome any and all thought's regarding
Il Duce,has anyone ever visited his home town of Predapio in Italy.
I understand that there is even a gift shop of fascist/Mussolini related
items.


Regards,Rob
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#2 User is offline   BRY 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 02:17 AM

My father-in-law toasted Mussolini till the last years of his life.Even got the Yugoslav from the Dalmatian coast,married to his wife's cousin to join him.
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#3 User is offline   Fanatic_Blitzer 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 11:57 AM

I dont see it like something to celebrate. But I will remenber it and later I will be doing it by going to Predappio. I want to see the casa natale and his grave. I also heard that the whole village has a fascist look, is this true?
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#4 User is offline   Romulus Invictus 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 01:28 PM

I visited Predappio several times during the Summer vacations I spent in Rimini (on the Adriatic coast) in the past years. The village and the graveyard where Mussolini's mortal remains rest, are nothing special so don't expect anything magnificent. I took several pictures of the Mussolini crypt and of the house where he was born but I have to locate them in the mess of my flat! :)
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#5 User is offline   sergemaster 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 03:14 PM

Personally IMHO, I don't think he was that bad. All we hear is how BAD he was and he did this and he did that but compared to real monsters like Stalin, Mao, and lets not forget the lefts darling Castro, who have more blood on their hands buts that's O.K. in the Left intelligentsia, the "useful Idiots" as Lenin called them. Just as long as they wore a red shirt everything was done for the good.

He's a question I'd like answered, how MANY of his people did Mussolini actually KILL before the war, as far as I remember, he just beat them up, not shoot them in the back of the head like others we're familiar with.

He did allot for Italy that was good, unfortunately, he made some bad decisions that to this day still effect Italy.


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#6 User is offline   Operation Hercules 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 03:35 PM

He did some good for Italy, but the worng desicions far out weight the right ones.
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#7 User is offline   Fanatic_Blitzer 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 03:41 PM

sergemaster said:

He's a question I'd like answered, how MANY of his people did Mussolini actually KILL before the war, as far as I remember, he just beat them up, not shoot them in the back of the head like others we're familiar with.


I have read somewhere that Fascist Italy had a rate of 2 death penalties per year. Not a lot when you compare it with other regimes.
Of course some other 'accidents' occured, but still not a lot. It is not really comparable with Hitler's 'night of the long knives', Mussolini said about it that it would be the same if he killed Grandi with his own hands.

Mussolini was more of a beater. Intimidation by beating concurrents/law-offenders up.


sergemaster said:

He did allot for Italy that was good, unfortunately, he made some bad decisions that to this day still effect Italy.


He did a lot of good things, something that modern (leftist) politicians tend to forget. He introduced social security, made the Pontine-swamp available for living, provided lots of jobs for the Italians, made Italy independant of other countries etc. People always seem to forget the good things he did. Of course he made some bad decisions, but that isnt a reason to demonise him.
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#8 User is offline   Ennio 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 04:52 PM

FanBlitz wrote: "He did a lot of good things, something that modern (leftist) politicians tend to forget"

Not just to "forget" but to accurately hide. For example, almost everyobody in Italy knows about the reclamation of the Pontine Marshes, but very few people know how the reclaimed land was dealt with. Given for free to rich speculators or big landlords, in a "right wing" vision of the world? Run by the State in collective farms, in a "left wing" bout? None of the two, but reclaimed, fitted with modern housing, equipped with machinery and leased out at reasonable rates to poor farmers who would have (and did) become owners after 30 years, therefore taking care of the land and of the machinery; the original method was much admired by the Soviet Commissar for Foreign Affairs Litvinov who visited the Pontine Province, and found the Fascist approach much better than the collectivization Stalin had imposed in Russia, devastating its agricolture in the name of social justice. A method that created a number of "yeomen farmers" without favouring "big business" or the great landlords as a Franco would have done. Pity for Russia that Litvinov was shot in the great purges. But in the Pontine province of Italy, the vote goes to Right in overwhelming majority ever since..... :lol:
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#9 User is offline   Fanatic_Blitzer 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 05:17 PM

Ennio said:

FanBlitz wrote: "He did a lot of good things, something that modern (leftist) politicians tend to forget"

Not just to "forget" but to accurately hide. For example, almost everyobody in Italy knows about the reclamation of the Pontine Marshes, but very few people know how the reclaimed land was dealt with. Given for free to rich speculators or big landlords, in a "right wing" vision of the world? Run by the State in collective farms, in a "left wing" bout? None of the two, but reclaimed, fitted with modern housing, equipped with machinery and leased out at reasonable rates to poor farmers who would have (and did) become owners after 30 years, therefore taking care of the land and of the machinery; the original method was much admired by the Soviet Commissar for Foreign Affairs Litvinov who visited the Pontine Province, and found the Fascist approach much better than the collectivization Stalin had imposed in Russia, devastating its agricolture in the name of social justice. A method that created a number of "yeomen farmers" without favouring "big business" or the great landlords as a Franco would have done. Pity for Russia that Litvinov was shot in the great purges. But in the Pontine province of Italy, the vote goes to Right in overwhelming majority ever since..... :lol:


That was a great idea! I have never heard about it, shows how good they are at hiding this. They seem to have a selective memory on this topic indeed.
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#10 User is offline   Libralesso 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 05:39 PM

Quote

Not just to "forget" but to accurately hide. For example, almost everyobody in Italy knows about the reclamation of the Pontine Marshes, but very few people know how the reclaimed land was dealt with. Given for free to rich speculators or big landlords, in a "right wing" vision of the world? Run by the State in collective farms, in a "left wing" bout? None of the two, but reclaimed, fitted with modern housing, equipped with machinery and leased out at reasonable rates to poor farmers who would have (and did) become owners after 30 years, therefore taking care of the land and of the machinery; the original method was much admired by the Soviet Commissar for Foreign Affairs Litvinov who visited the Pontine Province, and found the Fascist approach much better than the collectivization Stalin had imposed in Russia, devastating its agricolture in the name of social justice. A method that created a number of "yeomen farmers" without favouring "big business" or the great landlords as a Franco would have done. Pity for Russia that Litvinov was shot in the great purges. But in the Pontine province of Italy, the vote goes to Right in overwhelming majority ever since.....


It takes all sorts doesn't it? Giovanni Gentile, the philosopher of Fascism as himself and most like to call him, would have said Communism was merely a wronged Fascism and were not all that different. Infact he saw the real enemy as Liberalism and liberal democracy.

The Pontine was a major feat but one must think of the engineers, scientists and workers who accomplished this job. A leader just decries an order.
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#11 User is offline   sergemaster 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 05:40 PM

Also remember in Germany during the kristellnacht Il Duce was discussed by it and always referred to German Anti-Semitism as "That German vice". But now, Nazis are called Fascists and Fascists are Nazi's. See how the Left or to quote a famous poet, "The eye that alters alters all" has done a good job of it over the years.



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#12 User is offline   Tankredi 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 06:12 PM

Ennio said:

FanBlitz wrote: "He did a lot of good things, something that modern (leftist) politicians tend to forget"

Not just to "forget" but to accurately hide. For example, almost everyobody in Italy knows about the reclamation of the Pontine Marshes, but very few people know how the reclaimed land was dealt with. Given for free to rich speculators or big landlords, in a "right wing" vision of the world? Run by the State in collective farms, in a "left wing" bout? None of the two, but reclaimed, fitted with modern housing, equipped with machinery and leased out at reasonable rates to poor farmers who would have (and did) become owners after 30 years, therefore taking care of the land and of the machinery; the original method was much admired by the Soviet Commissar for Foreign Affairs Litvinov who visited the Pontine Province, and found the Fascist approach much better than the collectivization Stalin had imposed in Russia, devastating its agricolture in the name of social justice. A method that created a number of "yeomen farmers" without favouring "big business" or the great landlords as a Franco would have done. Pity for Russia that Litvinov was shot in the great purges. But in the Pontine province of Italy, the vote goes to Right in overwhelming majority ever since..... :lol:


the drying of the Pontin marches was a very, very old idea. Already the Romans tried it and failed. Like many others in the centuries after them...
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#13 User is offline   Fanatic_Blitzer 

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 07:10 PM

Tankredi said:

the drying of the Pontin marches was a very, very old idea. Already the Romans tried it and failed. Like many others in the centuries after them...


But Il Duce was the first one who succeeded.
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#14 User is offline   BRY 

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 12:24 AM

In Canada what we heard most often was that "He got the trains to run on time"But there were some harsh methods.In a book in Chapters,the name which I cannot remember at this time,the subject being secretive spy weapons,there was an old Beretta? pictured,used by some blackshirt,with a VERY large silencer on it,apparently using subsonic rounds,circa 1920's.
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#15 User is offline   Ennio 

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 08:06 AM

BRY wrote: In Canada what we heard most often was that "He got the trains to run on time""

Well, not just on time. By 1938, Italy had the WORLD RECORD for electrified railway lines, totalling nearly 10.000 Km. And if Italy has today 25% of its energy from renewable sources (mostly hydroelectric) it is thanks to the huge investments of the Fascist period made to reduce dependency on coal. Obiously, Mussolini didn't build dams or laid electric cables by himself, but the engineers, technicians, industries etc. that did the job, were the product of the selective school system that he had enforced on the Country, and often they were selected purely on merit, rather than on political affiliation. The most clear example is the then President of the IRI, the new financial structure created by Mussolini that saved Italy from the collapse of the Great Crisis of 1929, a job that was given to a notorious Socialist, but known to be honest and capable.
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#16 User is offline   Gian 

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 10:08 AM

BRY said:

In Canada what we heard most often was that "He got the trains to run on time"But there were some harsh methods.In a book in Chapters,the name which I cannot remember at this time,the subject being secretive spy weapons,there was an old Beretta? pictured,used by some blackshirt,with a VERY large silencer on it,apparently using subsonic rounds,circa 1920's.

Sounds incredible: I am aware of strong financial penalties in case of delays, but no such hard means!!
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#17 User is offline   BRY 

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 11:39 PM

Gian,I did not mean that these methods were applied to people running the trains.But there were quite a few power struggles between various faction.Maybe these incidents were hyped by opponents of Mussolini,I do not know.But I believe a few people got in the way at first.Did a blackshirt do it?Who knows.But you are right that most people from that era were very loyal to him because he did get things rolling very well,to bad he got tangled up with Hitler.What year was it that he approached Churchill to try to save Dolfuss?Is that correct spelling of his name?33 or 34?
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Posted 19 April 2006 - 06:31 AM

BRY said:

What year was it that he approached Churchill to try to save Dolfuss?Is that correct spelling of his name?33 or 34?


1934, Il Duce stood up against Hitler. The Austrian leader Engelbert Dolfuss (a personal friend of Il Duce) was shot in his office during a coup, staged by Austrian Nazis.

Il Duce was the only one, who was prepared to take it on Germany. The Western Allies didnt react, like they would not do for the next 5 years.

Btw why do you mention Churchill, he wasnt prime-minister in 1934. But he did like Fascism (some English newspapers claimed him being a Fascist).
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#19 User is offline   Tankredi 

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 08:28 AM

At the same time as Dollfuss was murdered his family (wife+kids) were the personal guests of the Mussolini family at Rocca della Carminate.
It was indeed the Duce who brought the sad message to Dollfuss´wife.
The two families had a rather close relationship.
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#20 User is offline   BRY 

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 12:57 PM

That was from memory,I guess not Churchill,but someone in British gov he approached to try to get support.And if Hitler had been stalled then,who knows?
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