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Italian Bayonet Discussion/photos

#21 User is offline   Lido 

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 02:25 AM

--- Hi Arditi, That black paint could be the original paint. For an unknown reson some Italian bayonets and scabbards were painted in black. The fluted metal scabbard for the Mod.1891TS bayonet is generally found painted in black. Sometimes the hilt of the Mod.1891/16 bayonet [a very rare bayonet] is painted in black. NOTE: There are so many unanswered questions about the Italian bayonets. It seems that nobody from Italy is interested in collecting Italian bayonets. A guy from Italy interested in Italian bayonets should have all the answers we need. Is it illegal in Italy to collect bayonets or this hobby doesn't exist in Italy???????????? Lido 07/20/04
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#22 User is offline   Tankredi 

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 07:14 AM

Lido said:

--- A guy from Italy interested in Italian bayonets should have all the answers we need. Is it illegal in Italy to collect bayonets or this hobby doesn't exist in Italy???????????? Lido 07/20/04


Lido, Italy has very strict weapon laws, so I think it may be possible that collecting bayos might be restricted.
I can tell for Germany that bayos are by now, due to the blade lenght, classified as offensive weapons and you donīt have any longer the permission to have them in your house. You are obliged to lock them away in the safe.
Funny thing, me mom has knifes and the kitchen that are way longer and much more sharper than any of my bayos nad I havenīt yet mentioned my axe that I use to cut trees!
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#23 User is offline   Lido 

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 08:56 PM

--- Hi Tankredi, Do I have to understand that today in Germany or Italy nobody can collect bayonets because of those stupid laws????????? It smells like communism big time! If those governments are afraid of you because you own an old bayonet it's pretty bad. The same laws were in place in Romania when I was living there but at that time Romania was not a free country, it was under the communist tyranny. I'm just glad that I live in free society. Lido 07/21/04
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#24 User is offline   Arditi 

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 10:29 PM

Afternoon Gents,
A few years ago I sent a complete US combat uniform...half shoes, web gear, helmet, uniform, "the works" to another collector in Italy. He told me to send only the garand bayonet scabbard...he said the bayonet was not allowed to be owned in Italy. Has this changed? Arditi
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#25 User is offline   urza1 

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 09:13 AM

My photo shows the left side of an Italian Mod.1891 Carcano bayonet.
The wooden grips are gone, both were rotten. I made aluminum grips for
this particular bayonet. The left side of the crossguard is marked with
"ROCCA 1941". No other markings are stamped on this bayonet.
Note the 2 transverse rivets [under crossguard] which secure the crossguard to the blade tang. The locking mechanism [bolt, spring, nut] can be seen at left.

Lido 08/04/04

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#26 User is offline   urza1 

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 09:15 AM

My picture shows the right side of the same Italian Mod.1891 Carcano
bayonet marked with "ROCCA 1941" on the crossguard. Note again the 2
transverse rivets which secure the crossguard to the blade tang. Only
the diagonal pommel is brazed to the blade tang [see the golden areas
resulted from the operation to secure the pommel to the blade tang]. The
blade tang has 2 holes for the steel rivets which secure the wooden
grips to the blade tang. The locking mechanism [bolt, spring, nut] is
usually very dirty and cannot function properly but I take it apart and
clean it carefully.

Lido 08/04/04

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#27 User is offline   urza1 

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 09:18 AM

My close-up photo shows the original rusty rivets which secured the
wooden grips of an Italian Mod.1891 Carcano bayonet. The black ruler
[from the bottom of the photo] gives us the dimensions in millimeters
[mm]. Both these rivets did belong to the Italian Mod.1891 Carcano
bayonet stamped with "ROCCA 1941". As I mentioned in a previous
message, the wooden grips had been completely rotten and I had to take
both out. At each end of the stell rivet is fixed a steel washer. To be
able to take the steel rivets out [and the wooden grips too], I had to
drill a hole at each rivet end to relese the washers from that side.
These old rusty rivets cannot be used again because both became a little
too short. I prefer to use screws to secure the new aluminum grips I
made. At the same time new rivets and washers can be made and used to
secure the grips to the blade tang if somebody wishes to do so. Once the
grips are secured to the blade tang using the steel rivets [and washers]
the grips cannot be taken out without to ruin the rivets and washers.
This is why I prefer to use screws to secure the new made aluminum
grips.

Lido 08/04/04

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#28 User is offline   urza1 

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 09:20 AM

My close-up photo shows in detail the original parts of the locking
mechanism used by the Italian Mod.1891 Carcano bayonet. The bolt tooth
seen at the bolt head secures the bayonet to the bayonet lug which is
part of the front band [or "nose cap"] piece used at the weapon [rifle
or carbine]. For the locking mechanism to function properly, the spring
must be strong and to have the original length. My photo shows the
interior side of the round nut. Sometimes the thread at the bolt end and
inside of the nut isn't good anymore. New thread can be cut very
carefully with the proper tools. If necessary a new bolt and nut can be
made using only basic tools and some skills. A new spring can be made
using a lathe and good material but a replacement spring may be found
and it's much easier this way. A clean locking mechanism with a drop of
oil will work perfectly. Lido 08/04/04

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#29 User is offline   Lido 

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 03:44 PM

--- A note for my last [previous] photo which shows in detail the 3 pieces of the locking mechanism [bolt, spring, nut]: The interior side of the nut has not a flat surface, it secures in place the spring end. Many thanks again to "urza1" for helping me to post my photos and comments. Lido 08/05/04
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#30 User is offline   Jim H 

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 04:02 PM

Rich's Bayonets

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  • Attached File  bayo.jpg (49.26K)
    Number of downloads: 100


#31 User is offline   Caudium 

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 03:41 AM

Hi all, I just picked up this bayonet off of ebay. Marked AF2991 on the bayonet and on the scabbard it says ARET 1933. Does this denote the year produced? and what does AF stand for? Also could the 1891 bayonet fit on a Carcano 91/38 or will it fit only on the 1891 long rifle.
By the way the price was $65 good price?
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#32 User is offline   Tankredi 

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 08:22 AM

$ 65 is a good prize.
It will fit only on the M91 and on the M91/41
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#33 User is offline   Bob Starr 

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 05:35 PM

Ciao amicos!!! I have an interesting question here. Everyone has very nice bayonets and I am duly impressed BUT the one item I haven't seen discussed here is the one unique bayonet the Italians used . . . the folding bayonet. I know the folder was originally designed, at least from what I've been able to research, for the M38 Carcano. I've alos noticed though that the MAB 38A was designed to take a folder. Was ther much use of a bayonet on the MAB??? Was any other Carcano designed to accept the folders and when did they decide to stop manufacturing them and make them a solid blade. I now have a digital camera but am not familiar with it yet. When I get better at taking pictures with it I will post some pics of my bayonets. Ciao et grazie!!! Bob Starr
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#34 User is offline   Bob Starr 

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 11:47 PM

Ciao all!!! As promised a long time ago some pictures of my folding bayonets. The serial numbers are as follows: 1) circle with a C in it followed by B21614; 2) R diamond shape 94207; 3) inverted oblong with GC inside it followed by 3855 then another circle with a D in it; 4) rectangle with MA inside it followed by A 85460; 5) R diamond shape L4608; 6) inverted oblong with a S in the top portion followed by I 9156 then another oblong with AT inside it; 7) inverted oblong with a S in the bottom portion followed by I 23766. I know absolutely nothing about these except they are really different and always strick up a good conversation when displayed. Any info would be great. Hope you enjoy the pic. Bob

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#35 User is offline   Caudium 

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 05:17 PM

edit
2006 FIFA World Cup Champions
La Coppa Nostra
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#36 User is offline   luca migliavacca 

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 03:27 PM

Ciao a tutti!
This is my answer to many European Laws banning the bear of bayonets during reenactor's events: it is a resin replica that perfectly fits in the original scabbard :D .
So reenactors can avoid to break :shock: their blades just to bear them (I heard many cases ... :cry: )!
Ciao!
Luca

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#37 User is offline   Kingleo 

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 01:13 AM

Hello everyone! This is my first post and I thank you all for the honor of joining.

I picked up this M91 bayonet for $20US The only markings I'm not clear on are an oval with the letters ML, and the XI or IX date code.

Posted Image

Posted Image
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#38 User is offline   Attivare 

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:40 PM

I found a shop that might be interested in reproducing the combo bayone/shovel frogs, does anybody have any good photos of one?
-CN Davide P.

30th Ccnn. Montebello
www.ccnnmontebello.com

"Political power comes from the barrel of a gun, and yours has no bolt," -Johnny V.
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#39 User is offline   Moncello 

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 07:43 PM

Camerati,
My bayonet details..

Posted Image

ZI 8811

It was Ģ45.00, here in the UK .

I hope this image is of use to you.. :D

Attivare said:

I found a shop that might be interested in reproducing the combo bayone/shovel frogs, does anybody have any good photos of one?


This is for you Camerata, from the Net..

Posted Image

:D
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#40 User is offline   Attivare 

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 10:07 PM

What is the timeline for M91 scabbards? I mostly see the brass and leather type, embellishment I would think extravagant for WW2.
-CN Davide P.

30th Ccnn. Montebello
www.ccnnmontebello.com

"Political power comes from the barrel of a gun, and yours has no bolt," -Johnny V.
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