Comments on: The CAI – Corpo Aereo Italiano http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html Documenting the Italian political and military actions of World War Two Sat, 13 Apr 2013 18:33:14 +0200 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Thomas Kerr http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-923 Thomas Kerr Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:16:50 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-923 Well, it seems tp me that the Italian air forces should have been a branch of the Reggiamarine. Consider that from west to east they had bases in: Sardinia, Sicily. Pantelleria, Greece and Crete (after 1941) and the Dodecanese. With these assets, there was no real need for aircraft carriers provided that the air was part of the navy with appropriate training, communication, and etc. Mind you, the record of the RAF is no better so the RN had to have the support of the FAA. Nonetheless, the coopertion between the Italian air force and navy appears to have been woeful. TKerr Well, it seems tp me that the Italian air forces should have been a branch of the Reggiamarine. Consider that from west to east they had bases in: Sardinia, Sicily. Pantelleria, Greece and Crete (after 1941) and the Dodecanese. With these assets, there was no real need for aircraft carriers provided that the air was part of the navy with appropriate training, communication, and etc.

Mind you, the record of the RAF is no better so the RN had to have the support of the FAA. Nonetheless, the coopertion between the Italian air force and navy appears to have been woeful.

TKerr

]]> By: Andreas http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-890 Andreas Sat, 15 Oct 2011 05:17:00 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-890 Only if they actually hit something. How many naval vessels were actually hit by level bombers in 1940? Did the Regia Aeronautica practice these kind of attacks with their level bombers at the time? Only if they actually hit something. How many naval vessels were actually hit by level bombers in 1940? Did the Regia Aeronautica practice these kind of attacks with their level bombers at the time?

]]> By: Andreas http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-889 Andreas Sat, 15 Oct 2011 05:14:55 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-889 Here is perfectly fine, since you chose to bring it up here. So I take it then that there were probably no successes by Italian high-level bombers against the Royal Navy in 1940/41. Here is perfectly fine, since you chose to bring it up here. So I take it then that there were probably no successes by Italian high-level bombers against the Royal Navy in 1940/41.

]]> By: Fred Leander http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-888 Fred Leander Fri, 14 Oct 2011 15:50:53 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-888 If you want to discuss this in earnest I suggest you establish a thread in the Forum. Fred If you want to discuss this in earnest I suggest you establish a thread in the Forum.

Fred

]]> By: Andreas http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-886 Andreas Fri, 14 Oct 2011 12:51:43 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-886 Is that so? Which sources? What were the successes then of Italian level bombers against moving ships, merchant or otherwise, in 1940/41? Whether Bomber Command was prepared for hitting ships is a red herring. They had Coastal Command and the Fleet Air Arm for that job. Both of them could hit ships, as they demonstrated, and some the reasons for the failure of Coastal Command to be more successful (lack of intel) would not have mattered in a fight against an invasion fleet, while others would have. Bomber command however did very well in its aerial mining campaign already early on. Is that so?

Which sources? What were the successes then of Italian level bombers against moving ships, merchant or otherwise, in 1940/41?

Whether Bomber Command was prepared for hitting ships is a red herring. They had Coastal Command and the Fleet Air Arm for that job. Both of them could hit ships, as they demonstrated, and some the reasons for the failure of Coastal Command to be more successful (lack of intel) would not have mattered in a fight against an invasion fleet, while others would have. Bomber command however did very well in its aerial mining campaign already early on.

]]> By: fredleander http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-880 fredleander Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:55:56 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-880 Hi, Dale - not much new here! If anything, I should think the Axis bomber forces would primarily try to stop any RN units before they entered the Channel (except their dive bombing forces). As for mixing up friend and foe I don't think I have seen more complaints than from RN personnel - even quite late in the war. That said, I have also seen comments from the same sources in the Med that, as level bombers go, the Italians weren't that bad. Of course, it would always be a balance between altitude and hitting probability. In 1940 I should think none of the warring factions were as badly prepared for anti-ship operations as the RAF Bomber Command. Hi, Dale – not much new here! If anything, I should think the Axis bomber forces would primarily try to stop any RN units before they entered the Channel (except their dive bombing forces). As for mixing up friend and foe I don’t think I have seen more complaints than from RN personnel – even quite late in the war. That said, I have also seen comments from the same sources in the Med that, as level bombers go, the Italians weren’t that bad. Of course, it would always be a balance between altitude and hitting probability. In 1940 I should think none of the warring factions were as badly prepared for anti-ship operations as the RAF Bomber Command.

]]> By: Dale http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-878 Dale Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:16:58 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-878 The Fiat was strictly a level bomber, and had limited ability to hit ship targets from medium to high altitude. Against merchants ships traveling in convoy at moderate speeds, the Italian Air Force did achieve some success in hitting ships. Against rapidly moving and maneuvering naval vessels, such as the destroyers that the Royal Navy would have been using against any attempted German landing, the Fiat would have been pretty much useless. If used to attack the RN destroyers while they were in the midst of the invasion flotilla, the Fiats would have posed far more danger to the Germans than to the Royal Navy. There were also a reasonable number of cases of Italian aircraft attacking Italian navy vessels. Naval vessels being attacked by friendly aircraft were a continual problem during World War 2. No air force really had much success with medium to high altitude horizontal bombing against ship targets during the war. The Fiat was strictly a level bomber, and had limited ability to hit ship targets from medium to high altitude. Against merchants ships traveling in convoy at moderate speeds, the Italian Air Force did achieve some success in hitting ships. Against rapidly moving and maneuvering naval vessels, such as the destroyers that the Royal Navy would have been using against any attempted German landing, the Fiat would have been pretty much useless. If used to attack the RN destroyers while they were in the midst of the invasion flotilla, the Fiats would have posed far more danger to the Germans than to the Royal Navy. There were also a reasonable number of cases of Italian aircraft attacking Italian navy vessels. Naval vessels being attacked by friendly aircraft were a continual problem during World War 2. No air force really had much success with medium to high altitude horizontal bombing against ship targets during the war.

]]> By: Andreas http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-860 Andreas Mon, 05 Sep 2011 10:49:28 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-860 The Hampden had a higher bomb load: http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/hampden_spec.html The Beaufort was a torpedo bomber, so it is hardly surprising it had a lower bomb load (i.e. none). You maybe thinking of the Blenheim, which was light bomber, and therefore in an entirely different class. You are also ignoring the Whitley, which was a contemporary medium bomber that could haul almost twice the payload of the Br.20. The Br.20 was a good enough machine. No more, no less. The Hampden had a higher bomb load:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/hampden_spec.html

The Beaufort was a torpedo bomber, so it is hardly surprising it had a lower bomb load (i.e. none). You maybe thinking of the Blenheim, which was light bomber, and therefore in an entirely different class. You are also ignoring the Whitley, which was a contemporary medium bomber that could haul almost twice the payload of the Br.20.

The Br.20 was a good enough machine. No more, no less.

]]> By: Fred Leander http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-856 Fred Leander Fri, 02 Sep 2011 12:57:06 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-856 Hi, peterg! We might have read different stories...:-).....As for ineffectual they really should be compared with their opponents, the RAF, as implied by me in the article. The Bomber Command was not very effective at the time and had heavy losses when they tried to be. The Italian bombers surely could have achieved more than they did at the time and in the context of an invasion this force might have been of more use to the Germans than it was, as a crucial element would have been the Royal Navy's eventual incursions into the Channel from the East. More than 100 extra well-placed Axis bombers in such a context could certainly have made a difference. Fred Hi, peterg!

We might have read different stories…:-)…..As for ineffectual they really should be compared with their opponents, the RAF, as implied by me in the article. The Bomber Command was not very effective at the time and had heavy losses when they tried to be. The Italian bombers surely could have achieved more than they did at the time and in the context of an invasion this force might have been of more use to the Germans than it was, as a crucial element would have been the Royal Navy’s eventual incursions into the Channel from the East. More than 100 extra well-placed Axis bombers in such a context could certainly have made a difference.

Fred

]]> By: peterg http://www.comandosupremo.com/corpo-aereo-italiano.html#comment-818 peterg Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:13:05 +0000 http://comandosupremo.com/?p=3476#comment-818 Interesting article...but I dont think British recording of the Italian efforts are as bad as you say. They are merely a record that the italians were there, basically ineffectual and that the mission was a propoganda effort by Mussolini - most of which isnt far from the mark. It was a bit of a pointless exercise - those fighters and bombers would have been invaluable in Africa. Interesting article…but I dont think British recording of the Italian efforts are as bad as you say. They are merely a record that the italians were there, basically ineffectual and that the mission was a propoganda effort by Mussolini – most of which isnt far from the mark. It was a bit of a pointless exercise – those fighters and bombers would have been invaluable in Africa.

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